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	<title>Comments on: Study: Researchers State The Obvious</title>
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	<description>a group of adventurers on an epic quest</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Nicodemus</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2006/08/21/study-researchers-state-the-obvious/#comment-10526</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicodemus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=774#comment-10526</guid>
		<description>Actually, the title of the article on gamebiz was quite misleading, and I admit I based most of my initial comments on that news piece instead of the actual research (yes, Im still trying to finish reading it before posting fully).

Anyway, check it out wolfgang... http://jcmc.indiana.edu/vol11/issue4/steinkuehler.html

It isnt simply about MMORPGs offering alternate worldviews and promoting socialibilty.

~Nicodemus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the title of the article on gamebiz was quite misleading, and I admit I based most of my initial comments on that news piece instead of the actual research (yes, Im still trying to finish reading it before posting fully).</p>
<p>Anyway, check it out wolfgang&#8230; <a href="http://jcmc.indiana.edu/vol11/issue4/steinkuehler.html" rel="nofollow">http://jcmc.indiana.edu/vol11/issue4/steinkuehler.html</a></p>
<p>It isnt simply about MMORPGs offering alternate worldviews and promoting socialibilty.</p>
<p>~Nicodemus</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfgangdoom</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2006/08/21/study-researchers-state-the-obvious/#comment-10524</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfgangdoom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 16:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=774#comment-10524</guid>
		<description>Stating the obvious is what they have done as far as I can tell. What I would like see is some research into whether or not children are more prone to ganking because they enjoy terrorizing other players or are adults more likely to crush someone weaker than them just because? An MMO has so many social aspects that to focus on the obvious statement that "An MMO encourages social interaction" seems silly to me. 
How about is a PVP player or PVE player more likely to buy gold from Ebay to get the edge. Or do more women play priests or men and why? The questions that can be posed are nearly endless, but pointing out that a social game promotes sociability is pointless. /duh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stating the obvious is what they have done as far as I can tell. What I would like see is some research into whether or not children are more prone to ganking because they enjoy terrorizing other players or are adults more likely to crush someone weaker than them just because? An MMO has so many social aspects that to focus on the obvious statement that &#8220;An MMO encourages social interaction&#8221; seems silly to me.<br />
How about is a PVP player or PVE player more likely to buy gold from Ebay to get the edge. Or do more women play priests or men and why? The questions that can be posed are nearly endless, but pointing out that a social game promotes sociability is pointless. /duh</p>
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		<title>By: Zubon</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2006/08/21/study-researchers-state-the-obvious/#comment-10512</link>
		<dc:creator>Zubon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 03:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=774#comment-10512</guid>
		<description>Just to comment quickly on research: much of it confirms already held beliefs, both because it is testing whether the conventional wisdom is true and because the conventional wisdom goes both ways.

Testing whether it is true: many things that "everyone knows" are wrong.  It is good to be the one who disproves conventional wisdom.

It goes both ways: would you be surprised to see that people who play MMOs have worse social skills?  Probably not, since we have a whole story about anti-social gamers in their basements.  Would you be surprised to see that people who play MMOs have better social skills?  Probably not, since we have a whole story about social interaction, forming guilds, organizing raids, etc.  Either way that the research turns out, there is a way to phrase it as "duh," more so if there is no statistically significant effect ("gamers are just like everyone else").

But yes, feel free to mock researchers.  Much published research is..."marginal."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to comment quickly on research: much of it confirms already held beliefs, both because it is testing whether the conventional wisdom is true and because the conventional wisdom goes both ways.</p>
<p>Testing whether it is true: many things that &#8220;everyone knows&#8221; are wrong.  It is good to be the one who disproves conventional wisdom.</p>
<p>It goes both ways: would you be surprised to see that people who play MMOs have worse social skills?  Probably not, since we have a whole story about anti-social gamers in their basements.  Would you be surprised to see that people who play MMOs have better social skills?  Probably not, since we have a whole story about social interaction, forming guilds, organizing raids, etc.  Either way that the research turns out, there is a way to phrase it as &#8220;duh,&#8221; more so if there is no statistically significant effect (&#8221;gamers are just like everyone else&#8221;).</p>
<p>But yes, feel free to mock researchers.  Much published research is&#8230;&#8221;marginal.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Lachek</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2006/08/21/study-researchers-state-the-obvious/#comment-10508</link>
		<dc:creator>Lachek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=774#comment-10508</guid>
		<description>Ah. My post contained a less-than sign (left angle bracket) and got cut off at that point. May want to fix that.
Evil web forms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah. My post contained a less-than sign (left angle bracket) and got cut off at that point. May want to fix that.<br />
Evil web forms.</p>
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		<title>By: Lachek</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2006/08/21/study-researchers-state-the-obvious/#comment-10507</link>
		<dc:creator>Lachek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=774#comment-10507</guid>
		<description>Buh? What happened to the commenting system? All my beautiful, shiny ramblings got eaten by /dev/null? The horror!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Buh? What happened to the commenting system? All my beautiful, shiny ramblings got eaten by /dev/null? The horror!</p>
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		<title>By: Lachek</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2006/08/21/study-researchers-state-the-obvious/#comment-10506</link>
		<dc:creator>Lachek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=774#comment-10506</guid>
		<description>I'm straying off topic - so what else is new.

Let me try (and probably fail) to be a little more terse. I find the roleplaying game genre to be a superficially obvious, but surprisingly poor genre choice for MMOs. By contrast, it is an excellent genre for a game with </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m straying off topic - so what else is new.</p>
<p>Let me try (and probably fail) to be a little more terse. I find the roleplaying game genre to be a superficially obvious, but surprisingly poor genre choice for MMOs. By contrast, it is an excellent genre for a game with</p>
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		<title>By: Nicodemus</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2006/08/21/study-researchers-state-the-obvious/#comment-10502</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicodemus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=774#comment-10502</guid>
		<description>Lachek, I completely disagree. 

First, of course people can have great conversations in an FPS, or any other game for that matter. The key phrase in your comment though was "waiting for the next respawn"...the conversations don't occur during the gameplay. Players don't login to a Dust2 Bar and have a drink while polishing their gun barrels.

Second, you are confusing story driven with plot driven. CRPGs and single player games are plot driven. The player is faced with specific scenarios and a linear (ok maybe somewhat open-ended) plot. It is possible to create engaging and emotionally involving experiences in an MMORPG. The problem is that the focus is more on the combat than anything else these days. Yes, it is a vicious cycle until someone does something different.

MMOs are, by definition, role-playing. Players assume a "role" and play. Also, interesting characters are not impossible to pull off at all. You pretty much define interesting character by unique gear or a unique name. Are you a unique individual at school or work? If everyone wears levi's and a white t-shirt, is it impossible for anyone to be unique or interesting anymore? Quests also do not define a player character..at least not more than finishing a project at the office defines who I am.

Repeat after me: "Free to play is a bad idea!"

Raph: Hi! Thank you for posting. I'm honored you commented here.

Anyway, I am reading the research this afternoon, and I will be adjusting some of my comments in my post. I like ranting, but I like knowing what I am talking about and being fair as well. Having said that, I think I could have written my initial post a little better and been clearer on my viewpoint.  I do support industry research, but in this case, I have questions...why was the research in the news with such a silly title? The research seems to be based on MMORPGs as "third places"...does saying "may expose gamers to alternate worldviews and promote sociability" really communicate this?

That brings to mind another question "may expose"....does that also mean that it "may not expose" or that the standard to expect is non-exposure, and that sometimes exposure is possible (sort of like "patients *may* experience side effects, but usually dont"). 

We do need academic research and lots of it. It validates our profession and our industry, plus it can offer heady insights into all sorts of things, trends, data, etc. 

We also need designers, writers, developers, and publishers to wake up and stop screwing around. I'm getting tired of crappy games that try to be shocking or over the top simply to sell boxes...and end up pissing off the government. I'm getting tired of seeing anti-game laws passed, or people arguing that games are not art. Some games definitely absolutely are art. Again, academic research can help to validate this. Lack of academic credibility and the release of poorly designed games really handicaps the industry.

Well, I need to finish reading this study. Check back later.

Nicodemus / Robert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lachek, I completely disagree. </p>
<p>First, of course people can have great conversations in an FPS, or any other game for that matter. The key phrase in your comment though was &#8220;waiting for the next respawn&#8221;&#8230;the conversations don&#8217;t occur during the gameplay. Players don&#8217;t login to a Dust2 Bar and have a drink while polishing their gun barrels.</p>
<p>Second, you are confusing story driven with plot driven. CRPGs and single player games are plot driven. The player is faced with specific scenarios and a linear (ok maybe somewhat open-ended) plot. It is possible to create engaging and emotionally involving experiences in an MMORPG. The problem is that the focus is more on the combat than anything else these days. Yes, it is a vicious cycle until someone does something different.</p>
<p>MMOs are, by definition, role-playing. Players assume a &#8220;role&#8221; and play. Also, interesting characters are not impossible to pull off at all. You pretty much define interesting character by unique gear or a unique name. Are you a unique individual at school or work? If everyone wears levi&#8217;s and a white t-shirt, is it impossible for anyone to be unique or interesting anymore? Quests also do not define a player character..at least not more than finishing a project at the office defines who I am.</p>
<p>Repeat after me: &#8220;Free to play is a bad idea!&#8221;</p>
<p>Raph: Hi! Thank you for posting. I&#8217;m honored you commented here.</p>
<p>Anyway, I am reading the research this afternoon, and I will be adjusting some of my comments in my post. I like ranting, but I like knowing what I am talking about and being fair as well. Having said that, I think I could have written my initial post a little better and been clearer on my viewpoint.  I do support industry research, but in this case, I have questions&#8230;why was the research in the news with such a silly title? The research seems to be based on MMORPGs as &#8220;third places&#8221;&#8230;does saying &#8220;may expose gamers to alternate worldviews and promote sociability&#8221; really communicate this?</p>
<p>That brings to mind another question &#8220;may expose&#8221;&#8230;.does that also mean that it &#8220;may not expose&#8221; or that the standard to expect is non-exposure, and that sometimes exposure is possible (sort of like &#8220;patients *may* experience side effects, but usually dont&#8221;). </p>
<p>We do need academic research and lots of it. It validates our profession and our industry, plus it can offer heady insights into all sorts of things, trends, data, etc. </p>
<p>We also need designers, writers, developers, and publishers to wake up and stop screwing around. I&#8217;m getting tired of crappy games that try to be shocking or over the top simply to sell boxes&#8230;and end up pissing off the government. I&#8217;m getting tired of seeing anti-game laws passed, or people arguing that games are not art. Some games definitely absolutely are art. Again, academic research can help to validate this. Lack of academic credibility and the release of poorly designed games really handicaps the industry.</p>
<p>Well, I need to finish reading this study. Check back later.</p>
<p>Nicodemus / Robert</p>
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		<title>By: Raph</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2006/08/21/study-researchers-state-the-obvious/#comment-10500</link>
		<dc:creator>Raph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=774#comment-10500</guid>
		<description>Too late, I saw it!

Seriously -- the general public view of MMOs is that they cause broken marriages, suicides, and financial hardships. Studies like these that offer data that is positive are incredibly valuable.

The full study is linked in the comments thread on my site...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too late, I saw it!</p>
<p>Seriously &#8212; the general public view of MMOs is that they cause broken marriages, suicides, and financial hardships. Studies like these that offer data that is positive are incredibly valuable.</p>
<p>The full study is linked in the comments thread on my site&#8230;</p>
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