Comments on: Doom and Gloom… http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/04/25/doom-and-gloom/ a group of adventurers on an epic quest Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:10:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Craig Huber http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/04/25/doom-and-gloom/comment-page-1/#comment-21014 Craig Huber Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:05:11 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1022#comment-21014 Another MMO aggregation site is mmorpg.com, of course. Whenever I'm looking for a new game to explore for a weekend, that's pretty much where I head... the layout at mpogd.com is less friendly, I think, although they seem to have a somewhat larger array of entries (more than a few dead links, too, tho). There always the old standby of mudconnector.com as well... they have a "graphic mud" page with a hundred titles or so, as well as the extensive text mud listing, of course. Another MMO aggregation site is mmorpg.com, of course. Whenever I’m looking for a new game to explore for a weekend, that’s pretty much where I head… the layout at mpogd.com is less friendly, I think, although they seem to have a somewhat larger array of entries (more than a few dead links, too, tho).

There always the old standby of mudconnector.com as well… they have a “graphic mud” page with a hundred titles or so, as well as the extensive text mud listing, of course.

]]> By: Cybercat http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/04/25/doom-and-gloom/comment-page-1/#comment-20922 Cybercat Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:59:43 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1022#comment-20922 Cameron, http://mpogd.com Cameron,

http://mpogd.com

]]> By: Cybercat http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/04/25/doom-and-gloom/comment-page-1/#comment-20919 Cybercat Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:58:30 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1022#comment-20919 Why don't flash and applet based games count? The casual game market is thriving and in fact more of a competitor than most other traditional game makers since the barrier to entry is low, they can easily outprice the commercial industry, and people (by and large) don't have 4 hours a night to devote to their games like most games these days require. What I was saying generally though, is that game making entry is a $0 entry industry. You can make games with free tools if you train yourself. MMOs will eventually reach that point with advancing technology. However, just like a free game written in RPG Maker 2000 (or XP) the little ones aren't going to get much attention. It will still largely be a commercial level driven industry. As for the movie analogy, I have to say, YouTube has pretty much proven to me that quite a few people just pick up a camera and make movies at an alarmingly increasing pace :) Short movies, but movies nonetheless. Why don’t flash and applet based games count? The casual game market is thriving and in fact more of a competitor than most other traditional game makers since the barrier to entry is low, they can easily outprice the commercial industry, and people (by and large) don’t have 4 hours a night to devote to their games like most games these days require.

What I was saying generally though, is that game making entry is a $0 entry industry. You can make games with free tools if you train yourself. MMOs will eventually reach that point with advancing technology. However, just like a free game written in RPG Maker 2000 (or XP) the little ones aren’t going to get much attention. It will still largely be a commercial level driven industry.

As for the movie analogy, I have to say, YouTube has pretty much proven to me that quite a few people just pick up a camera and make movies at an alarmingly increasing pace :) Short movies, but movies nonetheless.

]]> By: Kill Ten Rats » Blog Archive » Indie MMORPGs: CHALLENGE! http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/04/25/doom-and-gloom/comment-page-1/#comment-20873 Kill Ten Rats » Blog Archive » Indie MMORPGs: CHALLENGE! Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:53:23 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1022#comment-20873 [...] conversation about independent MMORPGs has started in my last post, mostly about getting exposure and getting the word [...] [...] conversation about independent MMORPGs has started in my last post, mostly about getting exposure and getting the word [...]

]]> By: Cameron Sorden http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/04/25/doom-and-gloom/comment-page-1/#comment-20868 Cameron Sorden Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:39:00 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1022#comment-20868 The biggest challenge for the Indie MMO on a limited budget, as illuminarc mentioned, is marketing and publicity. I'm just waiting for a hip site to come along and focus exclusively on the Indie scene MMOs that will start popping up. In fact, I blogged about just that a while back. Since no one covers them now (well, hardly anyone), whoever starts building an Indie news site early could pretty rapidly establish themselves with a mud-connector style database and on-going reports of projects too small for the big fish to even know about. The biggest challenge for the Indie MMO on a limited budget, as illuminarc mentioned, is marketing and publicity. I’m just waiting for a hip site to come along and focus exclusively on the Indie scene MMOs that will start popping up.

In fact, I blogged about just that a while back. Since no one covers them now (well, hardly anyone), whoever starts building an Indie news site early could pretty rapidly establish themselves with a mud-connector style database and on-going reports of projects too small for the big fish to even know about.

]]> By: Nicodemus http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/04/25/doom-and-gloom/comment-page-1/#comment-20856 Nicodemus Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:14:31 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1022#comment-20856 Sometimes it helps to point out the obvious cycles, because they aren't always obvious to everyone. The barrier to entry for an MMO will never reach zero. Just like it will never reach zero for console or PC games. No, casual flash and java games don't count. Sure anyone can pick up a video camera and make a "movie"...this could be argued as zero barrier to entry, but how often does the average Joe actually make a "Movie"? Sometimes it helps to point out the obvious cycles, because they aren’t always obvious to everyone.

The barrier to entry for an MMO will never reach zero. Just like it will never reach zero for console or PC games. No, casual flash and java games don’t count.

Sure anyone can pick up a video camera and make a “movie”…this could be argued as zero barrier to entry, but how often does the average Joe actually make a “Movie”?

]]> By: Cybercat http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/04/25/doom-and-gloom/comment-page-1/#comment-20849 Cybercat Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:04:06 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1022#comment-20849 This is just another cycle of the MMO world. Back in the day, Everquest was king, and then the "clones" came. Almost all of them died except for a few like DAOC and such. Most people pulled their money back at that point and MMOs spread out their population amoung the crowd. This next phase will likely usher in the same cycle, except with the ability for lower cost MMOs to continue running even after the rage goes away. AO is a good example of a game that came out of the MMO downcycle, but it still held its own due to a certain appeal. Basically, what you said has already happened once, and will most likely continue to happen until the barrier to entry of the MMO market is at or near 0 at which point you will see the same amount of MMOs come out as regular PC games. This is just another cycle of the MMO world. Back in the day, Everquest was king, and then the “clones” came. Almost all of them died except for a few like DAOC and such. Most people pulled their money back at that point and MMOs spread out their population amoung the crowd. This next phase will likely usher in the same cycle, except with the ability for lower cost MMOs to continue running even after the rage goes away. AO is a good example of a game that came out of the MMO downcycle, but it still held its own due to a certain appeal.

Basically, what you said has already happened once, and will most likely continue to happen until the barrier to entry of the MMO market is at or near 0 at which point you will see the same amount of MMOs come out as regular PC games.

]]> By: Nicodemus http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/04/25/doom-and-gloom/comment-page-1/#comment-20791 Nicodemus Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:53:06 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1022#comment-20791 Actually the Indie MMO was born about a decade ago. The landscape is littered with them. As for the big boys rules, it works both ways...sometimes they talk about all the cool features, and by the time a game actually launches it is nothing like they originally pitched. I agree we are going to see some cool stuff, but it will be a hard road. Not every indie is innovative or knows what they are doing. I think they need to reach out to other indies, and work together a little bit and collaborate, even if it is only at a high level (studio heads helping each other solve problems or mentoring each other). Break the mold! Actually the Indie MMO was born about a decade ago. The landscape is littered with them.

As for the big boys rules, it works both ways…sometimes they talk about all the cool features, and by the time a game actually launches it is nothing like they originally pitched.

I agree we are going to see some cool stuff, but it will be a hard road. Not every indie is innovative or knows what they are doing. I think they need to reach out to other indies, and work together a little bit and collaborate, even if it is only at a high level (studio heads helping each other solve problems or mentoring each other).

Break the mold!

]]> By: RickR http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/04/25/doom-and-gloom/comment-page-1/#comment-20790 RickR Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:48:22 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1022#comment-20790 We are just seeing the birth of the indie MMO, now that the tools are becoming available for the basement developer. But we all know the development cycle is much much longer than making a Quake mod. The gaming industry is far more 'visible' now, with the explosion of dev blogs, and these indies are taking note of the big boys' rule about not talking about something until they've truly got something to show. We're gonna see some cool, cool stuff, but it takes time. We are just seeing the birth of the indie MMO, now that the tools are becoming available for the basement developer. But we all know the development cycle is much much longer than making a Quake mod.
The gaming industry is far more ‘visible’ now, with the explosion of dev blogs, and these indies are taking note of the big boys’ rule about not talking about something until they’ve truly got something to show.
We’re gonna see some cool, cool stuff, but it takes time.

]]> By: Nicodemus http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/04/25/doom-and-gloom/comment-page-1/#comment-20789 Nicodemus Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:36:50 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1022#comment-20789 Re blogosphere...if we don't know about it, we can't talk about it. If an indy studio has something interesting and innovative, they should be letting us know about it if they want to stir up some conversation. Personally, I would be MORE than happy to talk about stuff. Re blogosphere…if we don’t know about it, we can’t talk about it.

If an indy studio has something interesting and innovative, they should be letting us know about it if they want to stir up some conversation. Personally, I would be MORE than happy to talk about stuff.

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