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	<title>Comments on: Warcraft is the new EverQuest</title>
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	<description>a group of adventurers on an epic quest</description>
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		<title>By: Back In The Mud at Kill Ten Rats</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/08/07/warcraft-is-the-new-everquest/comment-page-1/#comment-24987</link>
		<dc:creator>Back In The Mud at Kill Ten Rats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 16:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1159#comment-24987</guid>
		<description>[...] have expressed my predictions for where the game is headed on numerous occasions, and now have an opportunity to witness first [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have expressed my predictions for where the game is headed on numerous occasions, and now have an opportunity to witness first [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gneblefelbin</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/08/07/warcraft-is-the-new-everquest/comment-page-1/#comment-23855</link>
		<dc:creator>Gneblefelbin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1159#comment-23855</guid>
		<description>&quot;What is stopping a company from making new ‘timesinks’ all the time, so that they maintain their addictive treadmilling, but we the consumers, are getting a new experience all the time?&quot;

Isn&#039;t that what each expansion will be?

As far as the time sinks, I think there were many mistakes in level 60 end game content that they have fixed with TBC. I started grinding AD rep at level 50 and leveled several times without hitting exalted. I still am 6k rep away from exalted AD, but I am exalted with several factions in outland all with substantially less time committment.

The big issue I see is people getting friends into the game fresh since I either have to create an alt and level with my friend or let them trudge their way up to 70 and maybe 80 if they don&#039;t hit 70 before the expansion comes. What will it be like in 2 years when they move the cap to 100? Will we see leveling guides promoting 1-100 in 20 days played? Make it in 18 days if you are an expert player running an easy to level class like a hunter/mage/warlock? How could I tell a friend that it would take them 480 hours of serious playing to be able to go on a raid with me?

This increasing time to actually play through all the existing content will be their greatest long term challenge. Speeding up the leveling process just devalues the content already made and nothing can really save the level 60 end-game content since running through it would certainly level you to 65  before you even step foot in outland even if they cut it down from the 40-man requirements. There is too much content at level 60. We will see the same excess content at level 70 when they add the next expansion and so on. You cannot make content both for a group that experiences it after the level cap and also for those who level through it since the design requirements are not the same. In short, if you don&#039;t do Black Temple this time around, you will see it after you run the level 60 Naxxramus and Blackwing Lair. Any of you late comers do that yet? Me either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What is stopping a company from making new ‘timesinks’ all the time, so that they maintain their addictive treadmilling, but we the consumers, are getting a new experience all the time?&#8221;</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t that what each expansion will be?</p>
<p>As far as the time sinks, I think there were many mistakes in level 60 end game content that they have fixed with TBC. I started grinding AD rep at level 50 and leveled several times without hitting exalted. I still am 6k rep away from exalted AD, but I am exalted with several factions in outland all with substantially less time committment.</p>
<p>The big issue I see is people getting friends into the game fresh since I either have to create an alt and level with my friend or let them trudge their way up to 70 and maybe 80 if they don&#8217;t hit 70 before the expansion comes. What will it be like in 2 years when they move the cap to 100? Will we see leveling guides promoting 1-100 in 20 days played? Make it in 18 days if you are an expert player running an easy to level class like a hunter/mage/warlock? How could I tell a friend that it would take them 480 hours of serious playing to be able to go on a raid with me?</p>
<p>This increasing time to actually play through all the existing content will be their greatest long term challenge. Speeding up the leveling process just devalues the content already made and nothing can really save the level 60 end-game content since running through it would certainly level you to 65  before you even step foot in outland even if they cut it down from the 40-man requirements. There is too much content at level 60. We will see the same excess content at level 70 when they add the next expansion and so on. You cannot make content both for a group that experiences it after the level cap and also for those who level through it since the design requirements are not the same. In short, if you don&#8217;t do Black Temple this time around, you will see it after you run the level 60 Naxxramus and Blackwing Lair. Any of you late comers do that yet? Me either.</p>
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		<title>By: Verilazic</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/08/07/warcraft-is-the-new-everquest/comment-page-1/#comment-23452</link>
		<dc:creator>Verilazic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1159#comment-23452</guid>
		<description>What if for TBC, Blizzard had only added lvl 70, Jewelcrafting, new items, new zones, and Illidan? Would that have kept you playing? Because that&#039;s pretty much what TBC would&#039;ve been if they had put flying mounts and arena in the original game. I get the feeling people are underwhelmed mostly because it&#039;s neigh impossible for Blizzard to top TBC and Outland in our minds.

Obviously, leveling 70-80 is going to be at least as fun and smooth as it was for 60-70. Obviously, dungeons are going to be fun again (at least until you have to grind heroics), and raids will be new and challenging. It will be fun to explore the new zones in Northrend, and they&#039;re bound to have plenty of variety, and maybe the new pvp zone will turn out to work the way Halaa was meant to. Either way, world pvp in pvp servers will happen again, thanks to the removal of flying mounts for the early levels.

Inscription will probably give at least the same level of character customization that Jewelcrafting did. The new battleground will be insanely popular and tons of fun for a while, but naturally, everyone will play it too much, and get burned out and hate it for a month before playing it as much as the other BGs. Some people will level to 80 inside a month, then do the Deathknight quest, and start lvling a Deathknight around the time some casuals will be hitting 71, not to mention around when some other hardcore levelers get to 80 and decide to level another 70 instead of a deathknight, since it&#039;s likely some people won&#039;t enjoy playing one as much as an alt.

A bunch of people will probably go to WAR, and WoW&#039;s population might actually go down a bit, freaking out Blizzard, and getting them on the ball a bit more with pvp (because pve-ers aren&#039;t going to WAR), unless the new zone and BG turn out well, which could happen.

All in all, I&#039;d say it&#039;s more of the same, with improvements, ie a good thing. Unlike a lot of people, I didn&#039;t burn myself out grinding instances over and over, or raiding endgame again. It is quite possible to decide that you get the most fun in WoW from something entirely different from instances, rep, or raiding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if for TBC, Blizzard had only added lvl 70, Jewelcrafting, new items, new zones, and Illidan? Would that have kept you playing? Because that&#8217;s pretty much what TBC would&#8217;ve been if they had put flying mounts and arena in the original game. I get the feeling people are underwhelmed mostly because it&#8217;s neigh impossible for Blizzard to top TBC and Outland in our minds.</p>
<p>Obviously, leveling 70-80 is going to be at least as fun and smooth as it was for 60-70. Obviously, dungeons are going to be fun again (at least until you have to grind heroics), and raids will be new and challenging. It will be fun to explore the new zones in Northrend, and they&#8217;re bound to have plenty of variety, and maybe the new pvp zone will turn out to work the way Halaa was meant to. Either way, world pvp in pvp servers will happen again, thanks to the removal of flying mounts for the early levels.</p>
<p>Inscription will probably give at least the same level of character customization that Jewelcrafting did. The new battleground will be insanely popular and tons of fun for a while, but naturally, everyone will play it too much, and get burned out and hate it for a month before playing it as much as the other BGs. Some people will level to 80 inside a month, then do the Deathknight quest, and start lvling a Deathknight around the time some casuals will be hitting 71, not to mention around when some other hardcore levelers get to 80 and decide to level another 70 instead of a deathknight, since it&#8217;s likely some people won&#8217;t enjoy playing one as much as an alt.</p>
<p>A bunch of people will probably go to WAR, and WoW&#8217;s population might actually go down a bit, freaking out Blizzard, and getting them on the ball a bit more with pvp (because pve-ers aren&#8217;t going to WAR), unless the new zone and BG turn out well, which could happen.</p>
<p>All in all, I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s more of the same, with improvements, ie a good thing. Unlike a lot of people, I didn&#8217;t burn myself out grinding instances over and over, or raiding endgame again. It is quite possible to decide that you get the most fun in WoW from something entirely different from instances, rep, or raiding.</p>
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		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/08/07/warcraft-is-the-new-everquest/comment-page-1/#comment-23383</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1159#comment-23383</guid>
		<description>Well I know where Lich King has left me: shrugging and saying, good thing Pirates of the Burning Sea looks new, interesting, and &lt;i&gt;different&lt;/i&gt;. The only way I&#039;ll end up buying Lich King is if all the friends I game with do so, and then only so I can keep playing with them. However, I have a feeling most of them won&#039;t buy it either at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I know where Lich King has left me: shrugging and saying, good thing Pirates of the Burning Sea looks new, interesting, and <i>different</i>. The only way I&#8217;ll end up buying Lich King is if all the friends I game with do so, and then only so I can keep playing with them. However, I have a feeling most of them won&#8217;t buy it either at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: BitterCupOJoe</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/08/07/warcraft-is-the-new-everquest/comment-page-1/#comment-23382</link>
		<dc:creator>BitterCupOJoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 19:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1159#comment-23382</guid>
		<description>As much as I&#039;d like to believe that the consumer would rebel and demand innovation, I&#039;d say look at the American sitcom:  Yes, it&#039;s edgier and more hip in certain ways, but Everybody Loves Raymond is essentially the Honeymooners with a few new features.  Yes, people wll keep watching/doing the same thing over and over again as long as you tweak it just slightly with each iteration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as I&#8217;d like to believe that the consumer would rebel and demand innovation, I&#8217;d say look at the American sitcom:  Yes, it&#8217;s edgier and more hip in certain ways, but Everybody Loves Raymond is essentially the Honeymooners with a few new features.  Yes, people wll keep watching/doing the same thing over and over again as long as you tweak it just slightly with each iteration.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyndre</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/08/07/warcraft-is-the-new-everquest/comment-page-1/#comment-23371</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyndre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1159#comment-23371</guid>
		<description>[...Also, most of the timesinks were fun to you once....]

This is true, but is &#039;more of the same&#039; what the industry is all about, and what we, as the consumers are willing to live with?

What is stopping a company from making new &#039;timesinks&#039; all the time, so that they maintain their addictive treadmilling, but we the consumers, are getting a new experience all the time?

I am sure the obsticles to that could be time, money, innovation, technology...   but perhaphs its just the mentality that we buy it &#039;as is&#039; so why bother putting in the effort or taking the risk of designing better?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...Also, most of the timesinks were fun to you once....]</p>
<p>This is true, but is &#8216;more of the same&#8217; what the industry is all about, and what we, as the consumers are willing to live with?</p>
<p>What is stopping a company from making new &#8216;timesinks&#8217; all the time, so that they maintain their addictive treadmilling, but we the consumers, are getting a new experience all the time?</p>
<p>I am sure the obsticles to that could be time, money, innovation, technology&#8230;   but perhaphs its just the mentality that we buy it &#8216;as is&#8217; so why bother putting in the effort or taking the risk of designing better?</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/08/07/warcraft-is-the-new-everquest/comment-page-1/#comment-23370</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1159#comment-23370</guid>
		<description>&quot;Someone needs to prove to MMO companies that fun=money, not timesink=money. Unfortunately, we all show them that timesink is more important than fun.&quot;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference

Fun features don&#039;t extract nearly as much subscription money as addictive features. And the only reason why people put up with the timesinks is that they provide the right sort of carrot to drive the compulsive timesinking.

Also, most of the timesinks were fun to you once.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Someone needs to prove to MMO companies that fun=money, not timesink=money. Unfortunately, we all show them that timesink is more important than fun.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference</a></p>
<p>Fun features don&#8217;t extract nearly as much subscription money as addictive features. And the only reason why people put up with the timesinks is that they provide the right sort of carrot to drive the compulsive timesinking.</p>
<p>Also, most of the timesinks were fun to you once.</p>
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		<title>By: Zoraji</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/08/07/warcraft-is-the-new-everquest/comment-page-1/#comment-23368</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoraji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 02:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1159#comment-23368</guid>
		<description>Sorry for the multiple replies.

&quot;If an MMO company designs a game to truely be fun and inspiring, instead of a 100% timesink, that game would win me as a customer. Someone needs to prove to MMO companies that fun=money, not timesink=money. Unfortunately, we all show them that timesink is more important than fun.&quot;

I believe NCsoft has done that with dungeon runners. Problem with dungeon runners having no timesinks or high level content to grind to the game was a bit boring to me after a month of play. Soon they are adding in some fun pointless PvP content and I might start to play that again, but without timesinks the company has to constantly push out new content to keep the game from getting stale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for the multiple replies.</p>
<p>&#8220;If an MMO company designs a game to truely be fun and inspiring, instead of a 100% timesink, that game would win me as a customer. Someone needs to prove to MMO companies that fun=money, not timesink=money. Unfortunately, we all show them that timesink is more important than fun.&#8221;</p>
<p>I believe NCsoft has done that with dungeon runners. Problem with dungeon runners having no timesinks or high level content to grind to the game was a bit boring to me after a month of play. Soon they are adding in some fun pointless PvP content and I might start to play that again, but without timesinks the company has to constantly push out new content to keep the game from getting stale.</p>
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		<title>By: Zoraji</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/08/07/warcraft-is-the-new-everquest/comment-page-1/#comment-23367</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoraji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 01:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1159#comment-23367</guid>
		<description>Also, Lineage 2 has no keying or faction content that I am aware of. Of course that game is a straight grind the whole way anyways so no need for factions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, Lineage 2 has no keying or faction content that I am aware of. Of course that game is a straight grind the whole way anyways so no need for factions.</p>
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		<title>By: Zoraji</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/08/07/warcraft-is-the-new-everquest/comment-page-1/#comment-23366</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoraji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 01:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1159#comment-23366</guid>
		<description>Warhammer online is coming out when?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warhammer online is coming out when?</p>
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