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	<title>Comments on: Don&#8217;t tell me to smell the roses</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/09/28/dont-tell-me-to-smell-the-roses/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/09/28/dont-tell-me-to-smell-the-roses/</link>
	<description>a group of adventurers on an epic quest</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 05:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ethic</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/09/28/dont-tell-me-to-smell-the-roses/#comment-24418</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 05:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1247#comment-24418</guid>
		<description>@Wilz: Strange that. Well I added a plugin that is supposed to help, we'll see if it makes a difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Wilz: Strange that. Well I added a plugin that is supposed to help, we&#8217;ll see if it makes a difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Wilz</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/09/28/dont-tell-me-to-smell-the-roses/#comment-24415</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 02:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1247#comment-24415</guid>
		<description>@Ethic - Funny - that's exactly what I use. I get the text cut off with a (more...) line to click.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ethic - Funny - that&#8217;s exactly what I use. I get the text cut off with a (more&#8230;) line to click.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/09/28/dont-tell-me-to-smell-the-roses/#comment-24413</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 01:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1247#comment-24413</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;"Of course there would need to be oversight, so exploits and such don’t make it in, but even so."&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On this, yes, definitely. You need a group, or at the very least 1 (or more) person that can sit between game and user content and sift things. The common counter to this is that it costs money to maintain something like this, and with the margins we have nowadays, and have you seen the price of eggs, etc. So we don't do it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But there is a silver lining to all this, and it's in the way the industry expands, whether we like it or not or whether we agree with where it's expanding to or not: I'm old enough to remember (as many here) back in the day when "Customer Support" for a game was basically one oft forgotten 888 number and that was it. Try launching a decent title today or tomorrow without a dedicated CS/TS group and tell me how it goes, and how long it lasts.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It's not that dedicated CS/TS suddenly became free. It's that the industry realized how you can lose (X) dollars by having such a group, or lose (X) plus 100 potential million dollars by not having it. It's the same with this. Right now we don't have user content reviewers because (a), only a microscopical minority of the games out there support user content and (b), it costs money. Once (a) starts growing, the proposition for (b) will change, and maybe in 10-15 years from now we'll be talking about the User Content Groups in dev houses like we now talk about CS and TS. Who knows.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Despite my pathological allergy to (most) user content, that's where we're going.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Of course there would need to be oversight, so exploits and such don’t make it in, but even so.&#8221;</p>
<p>On this, yes, definitely. You need a group, or at the very least 1 (or more) person that can sit between game and user content and sift things. The common counter to this is that it costs money to maintain something like this, and with the margins we have nowadays, and have you seen the price of eggs, etc. So we don&#8217;t do it.</p>
<p>But there is a silver lining to all this, and it&#8217;s in the way the industry expands, whether we like it or not or whether we agree with where it&#8217;s expanding to or not: I&#8217;m old enough to remember (as many here) back in the day when &#8220;Customer Support&#8221; for a game was basically one oft forgotten 888 number and that was it. Try launching a decent title today or tomorrow without a dedicated CS/TS group and tell me how it goes, and how long it lasts.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that dedicated CS/TS suddenly became free. It&#8217;s that the industry realized how you can lose (X) dollars by having such a group, or lose (X) plus 100 potential million dollars by not having it. It&#8217;s the same with this. Right now we don&#8217;t have user content reviewers because (a), only a microscopical minority of the games out there support user content and (b), it costs money. Once (a) starts growing, the proposition for (b) will change, and maybe in 10-15 years from now we&#8217;ll be talking about the User Content Groups in dev houses like we now talk about CS and TS. Who knows.</p>
<p>Despite my pathological allergy to (most) user content, that&#8217;s where we&#8217;re going.</p>
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		<title>By: tfangel</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/09/28/dont-tell-me-to-smell-the-roses/#comment-24412</link>
		<dc:creator>tfangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 01:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1247#comment-24412</guid>
		<description>"5. Play games where the _players generate the darn content_ already! "

This is something that needs to be done better by all games really, and not in the way you described, at least how i feel about it. It's one thing to do it like EvE does, where economy and other players "make the fun", and another to basically allow "modules" to be made by players. Can you imagine how much content would be in a game like WoW if there were a way for the players to add to it? Of course there would need to be oversight, so exploits and such don't make it in, but even so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;5. Play games where the _players generate the darn content_ already! &#8221;</p>
<p>This is something that needs to be done better by all games really, and not in the way you described, at least how i feel about it. It&#8217;s one thing to do it like EvE does, where economy and other players &#8220;make the fun&#8221;, and another to basically allow &#8220;modules&#8221; to be made by players. Can you imagine how much content would be in a game like WoW if there were a way for the players to add to it? Of course there would need to be oversight, so exploits and such don&#8217;t make it in, but even so.</p>
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		<title>By: Ethic</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/09/28/dont-tell-me-to-smell-the-roses/#comment-24405</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1247#comment-24405</guid>
		<description>@Wilz: We do have full text on the feeds, but since we often use the "more" tag in wordress to keep our front page clean - some feed readers take that and cut off the full article. I use the Google Reader and it shows full text for all posts here. Just FYI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Wilz: We do have full text on the feeds, but since we often use the &#8220;more&#8221; tag in wordress to keep our front page clean - some feed readers take that and cut off the full article. I use the Google Reader and it shows full text for all posts here. Just FYI.</p>
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		<title>By: Wilz</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/09/28/dont-tell-me-to-smell-the-roses/#comment-24399</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 04:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1247#comment-24399</guid>
		<description>P/S To be fair, Blizzard is improving even before Wrath. They're realizing that a huge proportion of their players want to stick at the 10-man, and aren't interested to 'progress' to 25-man. They're also introducing more daily quests that is the joy and love of the casual player.

PP/S Any chance of you turning on full text in your RSS feeds? I promise to still come here and comment when you write something brilliant like this. (sugar coating intentional) I notice you don't run ads, so shouldn't impact finances. :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P/S To be fair, Blizzard is improving even before Wrath. They&#8217;re realizing that a huge proportion of their players want to stick at the 10-man, and aren&#8217;t interested to &#8216;progress&#8217; to 25-man. They&#8217;re also introducing more daily quests that is the joy and love of the casual player.</p>
<p>PP/S Any chance of you turning on full text in your RSS feeds? I promise to still come here and comment when you write something brilliant like this. (sugar coating intentional) I notice you don&#8217;t run ads, so shouldn&#8217;t impact finances. :P</p>
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		<title>By: Wilz</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/09/28/dont-tell-me-to-smell-the-roses/#comment-24398</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 04:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1247#comment-24398</guid>
		<description>Julian I think you hit it right on the money. Using the term 'casuals' and 'hardcore' in examples in your post however, have somehow made a few of you commentators miss your point I think :), thinking that you're supporting one or the other.

I hate WoW's development cycle right now. I think exactly like how Zubon said it - that casual players are subsidizing hardcore players when they choose that kind of content development choices. TBC as far as we know it, would have three content patches before the next expansion : Black Temple, Zul'Aman, and the Sunwell - two out of three of these will never be seen by the vast majority of WoW players.

I've never told anyone to go and smell the roses though. I just focus my anger at my lack of interesting gameplay choices on the developers. When I voice these opinions however, I very often get told to go and smell the roses in so many words, and often by - you guessed it - raiders.

Anywho, I think it's pointless to classify players. Considering that I have 2 level 70s, and 7 other 60s (one of each class), I doubt I can be considered a casual player in terms of time spent playing. Not to mention that I've both raided and participated in the old crazy rank-based PvP Honor grind in WoW. What am I then?

My exact complaint isn't also so much the number of gameplay options available to me. The fact that I've played the leveling game 9 times shows that I do not lack ways to make gameplay interesting for myself. It is that Blizzard is saving the best of their content for a tiny subset of their players. 

Raiding should be about access to gear, which only raiders need. Not access to all the parts of the storyline that truly matters. I have reached level 70 and completed nearly all soloable and small-group quests in TBC. Yet I have no idea that Kael'thas not only betrayed the Blood Elves, but also Illidan and is consorting with the Burning Legion directly. Yeah, I got the hints. Only 'the hints'.

I will not get to stand on the Frozen Throne, and take screenshots on the coolest place (literally) in all of Azeroth because I refuse to wipe for half a year on all the rubbish that comes before it with 24 other people so that I can step foot on the stupid throne.

Not having access to so much of the most important content - just sucks. I don't care about the gear, but I do care about experiencing the story. Games and especially virtual worlds are about telling interesting, interactive stories to me.

Blizzard promises to fix this some of the lack of interactivity in Wrath of the Lich King. I guess I'll give them one more chance.

In the meantime - I'll focus on the flowers that currently still smell nice in my part of the untended, slowly rotting field, while I watch the gardener focus most his work and effort on the far, far side that most people cannot even see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julian I think you hit it right on the money. Using the term &#8216;casuals&#8217; and &#8216;hardcore&#8217; in examples in your post however, have somehow made a few of you commentators miss your point I think :), thinking that you&#8217;re supporting one or the other.</p>
<p>I hate WoW&#8217;s development cycle right now. I think exactly like how Zubon said it - that casual players are subsidizing hardcore players when they choose that kind of content development choices. TBC as far as we know it, would have three content patches before the next expansion : Black Temple, Zul&#8217;Aman, and the Sunwell - two out of three of these will never be seen by the vast majority of WoW players.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never told anyone to go and smell the roses though. I just focus my anger at my lack of interesting gameplay choices on the developers. When I voice these opinions however, I very often get told to go and smell the roses in so many words, and often by - you guessed it - raiders.</p>
<p>Anywho, I think it&#8217;s pointless to classify players. Considering that I have 2 level 70s, and 7 other 60s (one of each class), I doubt I can be considered a casual player in terms of time spent playing. Not to mention that I&#8217;ve both raided and participated in the old crazy rank-based PvP Honor grind in WoW. What am I then?</p>
<p>My exact complaint isn&#8217;t also so much the number of gameplay options available to me. The fact that I&#8217;ve played the leveling game 9 times shows that I do not lack ways to make gameplay interesting for myself. It is that Blizzard is saving the best of their content for a tiny subset of their players. </p>
<p>Raiding should be about access to gear, which only raiders need. Not access to all the parts of the storyline that truly matters. I have reached level 70 and completed nearly all soloable and small-group quests in TBC. Yet I have no idea that Kael&#8217;thas not only betrayed the Blood Elves, but also Illidan and is consorting with the Burning Legion directly. Yeah, I got the hints. Only &#8216;the hints&#8217;.</p>
<p>I will not get to stand on the Frozen Throne, and take screenshots on the coolest place (literally) in all of Azeroth because I refuse to wipe for half a year on all the rubbish that comes before it with 24 other people so that I can step foot on the stupid throne.</p>
<p>Not having access to so much of the most important content - just sucks. I don&#8217;t care about the gear, but I do care about experiencing the story. Games and especially virtual worlds are about telling interesting, interactive stories to me.</p>
<p>Blizzard promises to fix this some of the lack of interactivity in Wrath of the Lich King. I guess I&#8217;ll give them one more chance.</p>
<p>In the meantime - I&#8217;ll focus on the flowers that currently still smell nice in my part of the untended, slowly rotting field, while I watch the gardener focus most his work and effort on the far, far side that most people cannot even see.</p>
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		<title>By: Verilazic</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2007/09/28/dont-tell-me-to-smell-the-roses/#comment-24382</link>
		<dc:creator>Verilazic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1247#comment-24382</guid>
		<description>I disagree that "stopping to smell the roses" is or should be purely associated with casual play. I would associate it more with atypical goals. Ever think there might be a hardcore gamer out there who's goal is to stop and smell every single rose in the game? Does "hardcore" have to be only defined by "winning" or "getting ahead" in the standard ways (ie gear)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree that &#8220;stopping to smell the roses&#8221; is or should be purely associated with casual play. I would associate it more with atypical goals. Ever think there might be a hardcore gamer out there who&#8217;s goal is to stop and smell every single rose in the game? Does &#8220;hardcore&#8221; have to be only defined by &#8220;winning&#8221; or &#8220;getting ahead&#8221; in the standard ways (ie gear)?</p>
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