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	<title>Comments on: PnP Ponderings: D&amp;D 4th Edition Launches</title>
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	<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/06/09/pnp-ponderings-dd-4th-edition-launches/</link>
	<description>a group of adventurers on an epic quest</description>
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		<title>By: volker b</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/06/09/pnp-ponderings-dd-4th-edition-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-47532</link>
		<dc:creator>volker b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1616#comment-47532</guid>
		<description>mmh, 1st as i see the new book in my german shopdealers desk as new product, i see the 3 damm things i not love:
- 1 hp monsters (with the stats of full monsters, but ..)
- every level a feat for every class
 and last
- some lost of the great spice of imagination in a new aera to get the childs of the pc inet world on one desk with realy dice (and other effects like y see y partners in real, no hidden pseudonyms avatars and so on

mhh maybe the &quot;NEW&quot; dnd is more Plug n Play as Pen n Pencil?
thxs for the article</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mmh, 1st as i see the new book in my german shopdealers desk as new product, i see the 3 damm things i not love:<br />
- 1 hp monsters (with the stats of full monsters, but ..)<br />
- every level a feat for every class<br />
 and last<br />
- some lost of the great spice of imagination in a new aera to get the childs of the pc inet world on one desk with realy dice (and other effects like y see y partners in real, no hidden pseudonyms avatars and so on</p>
<p>mhh maybe the &#8220;NEW&#8221; dnd is more Plug n Play as Pen n Pencil?<br />
thxs for the article</p>
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		<title>By: Coochanawe</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/06/09/pnp-ponderings-dd-4th-edition-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-26794</link>
		<dc:creator>Coochanawe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1616#comment-26794</guid>
		<description>After reading the books it looks like they took an MMO and packaged into table top gaming.  I see elements of the Old Warhammer Quest table top game as well.  Simplicitiy.

Which is good and bad.  More ppl will have access to a solid game, without having to have a stellar DM.  The system is also much faster, and after play testing a bit, flows well.

My concern is that this will hurt the storytelling and roleplay skills that a &quot;deeper&quot; system brings out. Characters no longer move feet, they move squares...you can &quot;respec&quot; your skills as you level. I forsee a lot of group degenrating into number crunching stackers like we see in the MMO world.


For my upcoming 4th edition group, I&#039;ll def be putting restriction and RP behind these tables and skills. I&#039;ll also use the faster combat system to take emphasis off number crunching and add more description to combat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading the books it looks like they took an MMO and packaged into table top gaming.  I see elements of the Old Warhammer Quest table top game as well.  Simplicitiy.</p>
<p>Which is good and bad.  More ppl will have access to a solid game, without having to have a stellar DM.  The system is also much faster, and after play testing a bit, flows well.</p>
<p>My concern is that this will hurt the storytelling and roleplay skills that a &#8220;deeper&#8221; system brings out. Characters no longer move feet, they move squares&#8230;you can &#8220;respec&#8221; your skills as you level. I forsee a lot of group degenrating into number crunching stackers like we see in the MMO world.</p>
<p>For my upcoming 4th edition group, I&#8217;ll def be putting restriction and RP behind these tables and skills. I&#8217;ll also use the faster combat system to take emphasis off number crunching and add more description to combat.</p>
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		<title>By: Robotech_Master</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/06/09/pnp-ponderings-dd-4th-edition-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-26761</link>
		<dc:creator>Robotech_Master</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1616#comment-26761</guid>
		<description>Just FYI, your Dungeon Master Guide italics tag sprang a leak. You might want to plug that up.

&lt;em&gt;Fixed, thanks.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just FYI, your Dungeon Master Guide italics tag sprang a leak. You might want to plug that up.</p>
<p><em>Fixed, thanks.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Buzzregog</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/06/09/pnp-ponderings-dd-4th-edition-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-26755</link>
		<dc:creator>Buzzregog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 03:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1616#comment-26755</guid>
		<description>So far my skimming has revealed some good and bad. I think most of your observations are spot on, especially including the forthcoming additional hardcovers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So far my skimming has revealed some good and bad. I think most of your observations are spot on, especially including the forthcoming additional hardcovers.</p>
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		<title>By: Lachek</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/06/09/pnp-ponderings-dd-4th-edition-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-26748</link>
		<dc:creator>Lachek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1616#comment-26748</guid>
		<description>Nero, it is a CRPG, or more accurately a MORPG:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/insider/gametable
And I think it&#039;s definitely geared to be just that.

I&#039;m curious to see how the game actually plays PnP. The overt molding of the combat system to mirror readily noticeable MMORPG tropes is jarring to me in MMORPGs - I can&#039;t even begin to imagine how obnoxious it would be in a PnP game.

I&#039;m all for cross-fertilization between CRPGs and PnP RPGs. I guess I just don&#039;t like it when the features crossing over are the ones I despise.

The question is, am I curious enough to actually dedicate a session of excellent PnP gaming to testing just how much I hate this new edition of D&amp;D?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nero, it is a CRPG, or more accurately a MORPG:<br />
<a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/insider/gametable" rel="nofollow">http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/insider/gametable</a><br />
And I think it&#8217;s definitely geared to be just that.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious to see how the game actually plays PnP. The overt molding of the combat system to mirror readily noticeable MMORPG tropes is jarring to me in MMORPGs &#8211; I can&#8217;t even begin to imagine how obnoxious it would be in a PnP game.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for cross-fertilization between CRPGs and PnP RPGs. I guess I just don&#8217;t like it when the features crossing over are the ones I despise.</p>
<p>The question is, am I curious enough to actually dedicate a session of excellent PnP gaming to testing just how much I hate this new edition of D&amp;D?</p>
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		<title>By: Zubon</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/06/09/pnp-ponderings-dd-4th-edition-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-26741</link>
		<dc:creator>Zubon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1616#comment-26741</guid>
		<description>As I read abilities, I note the disappearance of &quot;save or die&quot; spells.  In 3rd Edition, Fireball and other spells that did hit point damage were pretty, with the handfull of dice to throw, but far less effective than the buffs, debuffs, and myriad ways to take out an enemy in one shot (either completely or to make him a trivial target).  You just needed to pump your initiative and save DCs.

I have yet to re-norm my expectations for what is a worthwhile spell.  3d6 still looks really lousy.  Maybe it will be better if I become more familiar with how hard it is to drop monsters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I read abilities, I note the disappearance of &#8220;save or die&#8221; spells.  In 3rd Edition, Fireball and other spells that did hit point damage were pretty, with the handfull of dice to throw, but far less effective than the buffs, debuffs, and myriad ways to take out an enemy in one shot (either completely or to make him a trivial target).  You just needed to pump your initiative and save DCs.</p>
<p>I have yet to re-norm my expectations for what is a worthwhile spell.  3d6 still looks really lousy.  Maybe it will be better if I become more familiar with how hard it is to drop monsters.</p>
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		<title>By: Nero</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/06/09/pnp-ponderings-dd-4th-edition-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-26740</link>
		<dc:creator>Nero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1616#comment-26740</guid>
		<description>I think D&amp;D 4th edition will make for some very fun CRPG’s.  And for the first time since the original pool of radiance, I will not be torqued off that the computer version of the game does not follow the table top versions rules since I will not know them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think D&amp;D 4th edition will make for some very fun CRPG’s.  And for the first time since the original pool of radiance, I will not be torqued off that the computer version of the game does not follow the table top versions rules since I will not know them.</p>
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		<title>By: BitterCupOJoe</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/06/09/pnp-ponderings-dd-4th-edition-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-26739</link>
		<dc:creator>BitterCupOJoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1616#comment-26739</guid>
		<description>I picked up the books, and I like a lot of what&#039;s in there.  The multiclass stuff seems a lot more viable than it was in the past, particularly for spellcasters, even if it doesn&#039;t allow for as much individuality in some ways.  I like that half-elves are no longer humans with pointy ears and terrible racial abilities.  I also like that they split out elves to a wood elf type and a high elf type from the get-go.  

They&#039;ve added implements as spellcaster weapons, so having a magical holy symbol if you&#039;re a cleric or a better want if you&#039;re a wizard actually matters; on top of that, wizards can choose what type of implement they specialize in, and it has a minor but useful game effect.  For that matter, while fighter weapon choice kind of mattered previously, it&#039;s right up in the front of concerns now, with they type of weapon you like using determining what abilities you&#039;re probably going to want to take.

I don&#039;t like that they released with so few classes, even though I understand why they did.  I know that there&#039;s several coming down the pipe shortly, the first being the swordmage in the Player&#039;s Guide to the Forgotten Realms.  It&#039;s an odd choice, given that I&#039;d think getting the more familiar classes in earlier would have a higher rank; in particular, there&#039;s druids all over the Forgotten Realms, so I have no idea how they&#039;re going to skirt that.

On the DM side, I&#039;ve run one of the demos and found it to be a much more pleasant experience than 3e.  It all seemed to run much more smoothly, and that&#039;s after only having played a couple of demos as a player.  I&#039;m glad that they&#039;ve put more fluffy stuff in the DMG, because that&#039;s, arguably, the harder side of DMing.  I also like their default setting assumptions.  The kind of safe and developed world that you see in FR and even, to a lesser extent, Greyhawk are gone, and replace with a &quot;points of light&quot; setting.  Villages, towns, and cities are relatively safe places in a sea of dark and dangerous forests, ruins, mountains, and caves.  Traveling more than a day outside of town is very dangerous, and adventurers coming into a new town are likely to have the whole town coming out to ask for help with their troubles.  It&#039;s very wild west, and very much like the way D&amp;D started out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I picked up the books, and I like a lot of what&#8217;s in there.  The multiclass stuff seems a lot more viable than it was in the past, particularly for spellcasters, even if it doesn&#8217;t allow for as much individuality in some ways.  I like that half-elves are no longer humans with pointy ears and terrible racial abilities.  I also like that they split out elves to a wood elf type and a high elf type from the get-go.  </p>
<p>They&#8217;ve added implements as spellcaster weapons, so having a magical holy symbol if you&#8217;re a cleric or a better want if you&#8217;re a wizard actually matters; on top of that, wizards can choose what type of implement they specialize in, and it has a minor but useful game effect.  For that matter, while fighter weapon choice kind of mattered previously, it&#8217;s right up in the front of concerns now, with they type of weapon you like using determining what abilities you&#8217;re probably going to want to take.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like that they released with so few classes, even though I understand why they did.  I know that there&#8217;s several coming down the pipe shortly, the first being the swordmage in the Player&#8217;s Guide to the Forgotten Realms.  It&#8217;s an odd choice, given that I&#8217;d think getting the more familiar classes in earlier would have a higher rank; in particular, there&#8217;s druids all over the Forgotten Realms, so I have no idea how they&#8217;re going to skirt that.</p>
<p>On the DM side, I&#8217;ve run one of the demos and found it to be a much more pleasant experience than 3e.  It all seemed to run much more smoothly, and that&#8217;s after only having played a couple of demos as a player.  I&#8217;m glad that they&#8217;ve put more fluffy stuff in the DMG, because that&#8217;s, arguably, the harder side of DMing.  I also like their default setting assumptions.  The kind of safe and developed world that you see in FR and even, to a lesser extent, Greyhawk are gone, and replace with a &#8220;points of light&#8221; setting.  Villages, towns, and cities are relatively safe places in a sea of dark and dangerous forests, ruins, mountains, and caves.  Traveling more than a day outside of town is very dangerous, and adventurers coming into a new town are likely to have the whole town coming out to ask for help with their troubles.  It&#8217;s very wild west, and very much like the way D&amp;D started out.</p>
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