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	<title>Comments on: Data Geek</title>
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	<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/08/31/data-geek/</link>
	<description>a group of adventurers on an epic quest</description>
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		<title>By: yunk</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/08/31/data-geek/comment-page-1/#comment-27426</link>
		<dc:creator>yunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1851#comment-27426</guid>
		<description>I like collecting data too! When I was self employed my business partner and I both ran a lot, and so we would track everything. What we ate, we&#039;d track our heart rates and workouts. His sister who had diabetes bought a new blood sugar meter and gave us her old one and so we even tested our blood sugars and blood pressure. It was fun!  :) 

Actually it was good in a way seeing my blood pressure drop over time. Actually measuring it myself and seeing it go from 130/70 to 90/50 really pushes the point home about aerobic exercise. Of course then I started playing MMOs and it all went to hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like collecting data too! When I was self employed my business partner and I both ran a lot, and so we would track everything. What we ate, we&#8217;d track our heart rates and workouts. His sister who had diabetes bought a new blood sugar meter and gave us her old one and so we even tested our blood sugars and blood pressure. It was fun!  :) </p>
<p>Actually it was good in a way seeing my blood pressure drop over time. Actually measuring it myself and seeing it go from 130/70 to 90/50 really pushes the point home about aerobic exercise. Of course then I started playing MMOs and it all went to hell.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/08/31/data-geek/comment-page-1/#comment-27418</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 01:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1851#comment-27418</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t been on point since 1994!

But yeah, clarification: I&#039;m dissing the grind when it passes as &quot;achievements&quot;, not so much the ToK itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t been on point since 1994!</p>
<p>But yeah, clarification: I&#8217;m dissing the grind when it passes as &#8220;achievements&#8221;, not so much the ToK itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris F</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/08/31/data-geek/comment-page-1/#comment-27416</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1851#comment-27416</guid>
		<description>To be fair about the ToK in WAR, it isn&#039;t all about the grind. Some unlocks are accomplished by killing one thing (a rare or hard to find mob) and there is a lot of fun, fluff, silliness (yes, there is a &quot;streaking&quot; title to be had!).

A big part of the ToK is the integration of the storyline. Each new area you come upon has a detailed back story of why you are there in the first place, and what special things may be going on in around you you should keep an eye out for. I have enjoyed reading the story behind the game I am playing - really adds to the immersion.

Last little info-bit - there are useful tools in the ToK as well besides &quot;achievements&quot; and &quot;titles&quot;. There is a tactic slot reserved for special tactics that come from ToK unlocks - what those are, I haven&#039;t found yet (and hopefully it isn&#039;t a &quot;Kill 10K rats to get a +5% damage bonus against rats&quot;)and the fun part for me is the data collection aspect. You won&#039;t find me grinding out mobs to increase my kill count against them, but I definitely like knowing that in my travels I have killed 237 Dark Elves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair about the ToK in WAR, it isn&#8217;t all about the grind. Some unlocks are accomplished by killing one thing (a rare or hard to find mob) and there is a lot of fun, fluff, silliness (yes, there is a &#8220;streaking&#8221; title to be had!).</p>
<p>A big part of the ToK is the integration of the storyline. Each new area you come upon has a detailed back story of why you are there in the first place, and what special things may be going on in around you you should keep an eye out for. I have enjoyed reading the story behind the game I am playing &#8211; really adds to the immersion.</p>
<p>Last little info-bit &#8211; there are useful tools in the ToK as well besides &#8220;achievements&#8221; and &#8220;titles&#8221;. There is a tactic slot reserved for special tactics that come from ToK unlocks &#8211; what those are, I haven&#8217;t found yet (and hopefully it isn&#8217;t a &#8220;Kill 10K rats to get a +5% damage bonus against rats&#8221;)and the fun part for me is the data collection aspect. You won&#8217;t find me grinding out mobs to increase my kill count against them, but I definitely like knowing that in my travels I have killed 237 Dark Elves.</p>
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		<title>By: Zubon</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/08/31/data-geek/comment-page-1/#comment-27412</link>
		<dc:creator>Zubon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1851#comment-27412</guid>
		<description>Julian: fair but not entirely on point.  I&#039;m fond of grind tracks for reasons I won&#039;t get into here, but this is not about whether there is a title or a bonus at the end.  I just want built-in data tools, and data collection is something you need to plan ahead of time.

Some people will wear a 10,000 rats title as an accomplishment.  Others will see that number and re-think their lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julian: fair but not entirely on point.  I&#8217;m fond of grind tracks for reasons I won&#8217;t get into here, but this is not about whether there is a title or a bonus at the end.  I just want built-in data tools, and data collection is something you need to plan ahead of time.</p>
<p>Some people will wear a 10,000 rats title as an accomplishment.  Others will see that number and re-think their lives.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/08/31/data-geek/comment-page-1/#comment-27411</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1851#comment-27411</guid>
		<description>Something else I forgot:

We all complain (myself included) about some of the pointless grindy faction rep grinds in WoW, but tell you what: At least sometimes you get a usable item or two out of those.

I guess it doesn&#039;t matter to some people that on one hand you grind for a total of 20 hours and you get an item, and on the other you grind for 20 hours and you get a title. People are free to like whatever. There will always be compulsive must have all titles possible rawr types. And that&#039;s fine.

But as far as getting something &#039;useful&#039; or a &#039;better, more rewarding&#039; system, well it&#039;s a tossup. It&#039;s about the same. Yes, the nature of &#039;rewarding&#039; changes from person to person.

We&#039;re not revolutionizing anything. This is not new. This is not spectacular. Same grind, different smell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something else I forgot:</p>
<p>We all complain (myself included) about some of the pointless grindy faction rep grinds in WoW, but tell you what: At least sometimes you get a usable item or two out of those.</p>
<p>I guess it doesn&#8217;t matter to some people that on one hand you grind for a total of 20 hours and you get an item, and on the other you grind for 20 hours and you get a title. People are free to like whatever. There will always be compulsive must have all titles possible rawr types. And that&#8217;s fine.</p>
<p>But as far as getting something &#8216;useful&#8217; or a &#8216;better, more rewarding&#8217; system, well it&#8217;s a tossup. It&#8217;s about the same. Yes, the nature of &#8216;rewarding&#8217; changes from person to person.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re not revolutionizing anything. This is not new. This is not spectacular. Same grind, different smell.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/08/31/data-geek/comment-page-1/#comment-27410</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1851#comment-27410</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really not at all enthusiastic about achievements like, say, you have killed 10.000 rats. That&#039;s not an achievement, that&#039;s a flair pin.

&quot;Congratulations, you have free time&quot;

I&#039;d like achievements to be more meaningful, and to have more meaningful rewards and/or characteristics attached to them. Even if there are less achievements to be had.

Yes, the cynical in me knows that the whole idea of achievements in MMOs is essentially yet another timesink that appeals to the obsessive-compulsive gamer in us. And that exists as it is, I&#039;m not passing judgement on it. If we must have timesinks, then so be it.

I&#039;d like for achievements to be more meaningful, and harder to get. Otherwise don&#039;t call them &quot;achievements&quot;. With most of these you&#039;re not &quot;achieving&quot; anything other than showing you have enough time to dump on an easy timesink.

Besides, what the hell... we&#039;ve been collectively bitching and whining, sometimes very loudly, about hating the concept of grind, however it manifests. And now that we&#039;re given a metric ton of grind are we supposed to embrace it because we get a flair pin for our efforts?

&quot;No, it&#039;s not &#039;grind&#039;. It&#039;s an &#039;achievement&#039;. You get a title.&quot;

Come on now. Make them worthy or don&#039;t call them achievements. Call them what they are, grind tracks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really not at all enthusiastic about achievements like, say, you have killed 10.000 rats. That&#8217;s not an achievement, that&#8217;s a flair pin.</p>
<p>&#8220;Congratulations, you have free time&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like achievements to be more meaningful, and to have more meaningful rewards and/or characteristics attached to them. Even if there are less achievements to be had.</p>
<p>Yes, the cynical in me knows that the whole idea of achievements in MMOs is essentially yet another timesink that appeals to the obsessive-compulsive gamer in us. And that exists as it is, I&#8217;m not passing judgement on it. If we must have timesinks, then so be it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like for achievements to be more meaningful, and harder to get. Otherwise don&#8217;t call them &#8220;achievements&#8221;. With most of these you&#8217;re not &#8220;achieving&#8221; anything other than showing you have enough time to dump on an easy timesink.</p>
<p>Besides, what the hell&#8230; we&#8217;ve been collectively bitching and whining, sometimes very loudly, about hating the concept of grind, however it manifests. And now that we&#8217;re given a metric ton of grind are we supposed to embrace it because we get a flair pin for our efforts?</p>
<p>&#8220;No, it&#8217;s not &#8216;grind&#8217;. It&#8217;s an &#8216;achievement&#8217;. You get a title.&#8221;</p>
<p>Come on now. Make them worthy or don&#8217;t call them achievements. Call them what they are, grind tracks.</p>
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		<title>By: Earnest Dodge</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/08/31/data-geek/comment-page-1/#comment-27409</link>
		<dc:creator>Earnest Dodge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 08:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1851#comment-27409</guid>
		<description>It would be so wonderful if every entry in the tome had a spot where we could write our own bits.  Especially if other people could look at those bits.  There could be some actual communal storytelling going on!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be so wonderful if every entry in the tome had a spot where we could write our own bits.  Especially if other people could look at those bits.  There could be some actual communal storytelling going on!</p>
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