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	<title>Comments on: Mythic&#8217;s Epic Fail</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/09/13/mythics-epic-fail/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/09/13/mythics-epic-fail/</link>
	<description>a group of adventurers on an epic quest</description>
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		<title>By: Channel Massive &#187; Blog Archive &#187; My Hopes and Dreams For 2009 and Beyond&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/09/13/mythics-epic-fail/comment-page-1/#comment-29261</link>
		<dc:creator>Channel Massive &#187; Blog Archive &#187; My Hopes and Dreams For 2009 and Beyond&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1949#comment-29261</guid>
		<description>[...] the Liberal use of &#8220;Epic Fail&#8221; When it Comes to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the Liberal use of &#8220;Epic Fail&#8221; When it Comes to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Iv</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/09/13/mythics-epic-fail/comment-page-1/#comment-28905</link>
		<dc:creator>Iv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1949#comment-28905</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re absolutely wrong,only using this term &quot;epic fail&quot; makes me want to slap you. Warhammer is working on the game. WoW in the start was rubbish. It didn&#039;t have any pvp. Only quests &quot;yay&quot; it turns out to be a great game now. Only the pvp still sucks.
Warhammer orvr already is 10x better .. But it&#039;s not that easy, so that scares alot of people away, thats ignorance.

And boehoe it&#039;ll turn you into a chicken ? go explore when you are at that level, period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re absolutely wrong,only using this term &#8220;epic fail&#8221; makes me want to slap you. Warhammer is working on the game. WoW in the start was rubbish. It didn&#8217;t have any pvp. Only quests &#8220;yay&#8221; it turns out to be a great game now. Only the pvp still sucks.<br />
Warhammer orvr already is 10x better .. But it&#8217;s not that easy, so that scares alot of people away, thats ignorance.</p>
<p>And boehoe it&#8217;ll turn you into a chicken ? go explore when you are at that level, period.</p>
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		<title>By: Lucid</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/09/13/mythics-epic-fail/comment-page-1/#comment-27896</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1949#comment-27896</guid>
		<description>Awe, hims cant grief new players to make his e-peen bigger. :(  So sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awe, hims cant grief new players to make his e-peen bigger. :(  So sad.</p>
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		<title>By: LtWarhound</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/09/13/mythics-epic-fail/comment-page-1/#comment-27675</link>
		<dc:creator>LtWarhound</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1949#comment-27675</guid>
		<description>Cyndre, that wouldn&#039;t work.

Unflagged, the player from a higher tier can still indirectly PvP you.  You are fighting in a keep, he strolls in, past you and your guild because you can&#039;t attack unflagged PCs, and takes out the keep lord.  There goes the keep you were trying to defend.

Or you are trying to do a PQ, he strolls up and heals/buffs the flagged enemy players that ran up with him, while they attack you.

Simply shutting off their ability to flag doesn&#039;t solve the problem.

The closest to a viable solution is a reverse bolster, drag the uptier player down to the level of the content.  Remove any skills his new level doesn&#039;t allow, downgrade his gear, etc.  Even that has problems, and to be honest, is more work than Mythic should be doing to support a very small subset of the playerbase.  I&#039;d much rather have those same resources working on bug fixes and new content for the entire playerbase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cyndre, that wouldn&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>Unflagged, the player from a higher tier can still indirectly PvP you.  You are fighting in a keep, he strolls in, past you and your guild because you can&#8217;t attack unflagged PCs, and takes out the keep lord.  There goes the keep you were trying to defend.</p>
<p>Or you are trying to do a PQ, he strolls up and heals/buffs the flagged enemy players that ran up with him, while they attack you.</p>
<p>Simply shutting off their ability to flag doesn&#8217;t solve the problem.</p>
<p>The closest to a viable solution is a reverse bolster, drag the uptier player down to the level of the content.  Remove any skills his new level doesn&#8217;t allow, downgrade his gear, etc.  Even that has problems, and to be honest, is more work than Mythic should be doing to support a very small subset of the playerbase.  I&#8217;d much rather have those same resources working on bug fixes and new content for the entire playerbase.</p>
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		<title>By: Da Bloody Twenty - Launch Day Edition! &#171; Waaagh! A Warhammer Online Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/09/13/mythics-epic-fail/comment-page-1/#comment-27674</link>
		<dc:creator>Da Bloody Twenty - Launch Day Edition! &#171; Waaagh! A Warhammer Online Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1949#comment-27674</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;Mythic&#8217;s Epic Fail&#8221; @ Kill Ten Rats - A lament for the cutting of the &#8220;Syp&#8221; career, widely thought to be overpowered. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;Mythic&#8217;s Epic Fail&#8221; @ Kill Ten Rats &#8211; A lament for the cutting of the &#8220;Syp&#8221; career, widely thought to be overpowered. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shalkis</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/09/13/mythics-epic-fail/comment-page-1/#comment-27642</link>
		<dc:creator>Shalkis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1949#comment-27642</guid>
		<description>So.. you want blueshielding? My WoW realm has a history of World PvP raids ruined by having an untouchable blueshielder in the middle of the enemy raid, reporting their group makeup and every move.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So.. you want blueshielding? My WoW realm has a history of World PvP raids ruined by having an untouchable blueshielder in the middle of the enemy raid, reporting their group makeup and every move.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyndre</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/09/13/mythics-epic-fail/comment-page-1/#comment-27640</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyndre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1949#comment-27640</guid>
		<description>Yunk, reread my comments...   I am advocating Tier specific ONLY, but no chicken anywhere.  Instead, just auto-unflag out-tier people and then they can&#039;t contribute to the lower tier PvP, but they can travel to those zone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yunk, reread my comments&#8230;   I am advocating Tier specific ONLY, but no chicken anywhere.  Instead, just auto-unflag out-tier people and then they can&#8217;t contribute to the lower tier PvP, but they can travel to those zone.</p>
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		<title>By: yunk</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/09/13/mythics-epic-fail/comment-page-1/#comment-27637</link>
		<dc:creator>yunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 02:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1949#comment-27637</guid>
		<description>yes the open ruleset doesn&#039;t work, but also the rules Cyndre proposes won&#039;t work either, not for WAR at least. It&#039;s supposed to be &quot;war is everywhere&quot;, and you contribute right from level 1. But if lvl 40s are out there in t1 or t2 zones, then it won&#039;t be war is everywhere, it will be &quot;war starts at 40&quot; since you&#039;d have to be 40 to compete in rvr at all, which is the opposite of how the whole game is designed. 

I can only imagine that is why they left the chicken in, because otherwise it would basically break the game. It would be trivial for a bunch of 40s to go take a t2 keep. Most others wouldn&#039;t bother to defend it and probably just stay in t4. Unless, as you point out, it&#039;s the &quot;non competative&quot; guilds fighting it out with their 40s in the lower tiers. 

I don&#039;t know, it seems to me if you want ffa or full pvp all the time you need a game that&#039;s based on that concept. WAR is based on tiers of equal level opponents fighting, which could not be more different, even though it&#039;s pvp.

I actually liked the earlier version, rvr everywhere, but you can&#039;t even go 1 level down. i was considering having an alt on an open with that rule, but not the way they made it now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes the open ruleset doesn&#8217;t work, but also the rules Cyndre proposes won&#8217;t work either, not for WAR at least. It&#8217;s supposed to be &#8220;war is everywhere&#8221;, and you contribute right from level 1. But if lvl 40s are out there in t1 or t2 zones, then it won&#8217;t be war is everywhere, it will be &#8220;war starts at 40&#8243; since you&#8217;d have to be 40 to compete in rvr at all, which is the opposite of how the whole game is designed. </p>
<p>I can only imagine that is why they left the chicken in, because otherwise it would basically break the game. It would be trivial for a bunch of 40s to go take a t2 keep. Most others wouldn&#8217;t bother to defend it and probably just stay in t4. Unless, as you point out, it&#8217;s the &#8220;non competative&#8221; guilds fighting it out with their 40s in the lower tiers. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know, it seems to me if you want ffa or full pvp all the time you need a game that&#8217;s based on that concept. WAR is based on tiers of equal level opponents fighting, which could not be more different, even though it&#8217;s pvp.</p>
<p>I actually liked the earlier version, rvr everywhere, but you can&#8217;t even go 1 level down. i was considering having an alt on an open with that rule, but not the way they made it now.</p>
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		<title>By: Solidstate</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/09/13/mythics-epic-fail/comment-page-1/#comment-27629</link>
		<dc:creator>Solidstate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1949#comment-27629</guid>
		<description>A few reasons for going to lower level areas (non-PvP related), WoW focused:
* Farm lower-level profession mats- either for AH, power-leveling your own alt or a friend&#039;s, etc.
* Kill lower-level mobs for specific drops - recipes, specific (not BoP) items, trade goods (e.g. cloth).
* Explore for fun or to unlock an achievement (&quot;explorer&quot;).
* Kill lower-level mobs for faction rep related drops or for rep from the actual kills.
* Do lower-level quests which no longer give XP but do give rep with a city faction.
* Boost a low-level char.

As the above reasons show, at least in WoW, there are many possible reasons for going to lower level content, that are not related to ganking. While I am sure WAR is very different and probably the exact same reasons don&#039;t apply, it would seem to me that Cyndre has a valid point - by restricting this, Mythic will be restricting at least some of their players. Not restricting just ganking, but restricting valid activities, such as doing lower-level quests for fun (or faction rep, if that exists in WAR), farming mats for professions/AH, etc.

It looks to me as if either: this is a poor decision on the part of Mythic, or - WAR is a much poorer game compared to WoW (AH/professions/faction-rep not as developed). I&#039;ll say however that since I haven&#039;t played WAR I don&#039;t know for certain if this is true - maybe WAR simply has found clever ways to let players get what they need without going to lower level areas...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few reasons for going to lower level areas (non-PvP related), WoW focused:<br />
* Farm lower-level profession mats- either for AH, power-leveling your own alt or a friend&#8217;s, etc.<br />
* Kill lower-level mobs for specific drops &#8211; recipes, specific (not BoP) items, trade goods (e.g. cloth).<br />
* Explore for fun or to unlock an achievement (&#8220;explorer&#8221;).<br />
* Kill lower-level mobs for faction rep related drops or for rep from the actual kills.<br />
* Do lower-level quests which no longer give XP but do give rep with a city faction.<br />
* Boost a low-level char.</p>
<p>As the above reasons show, at least in WoW, there are many possible reasons for going to lower level content, that are not related to ganking. While I am sure WAR is very different and probably the exact same reasons don&#8217;t apply, it would seem to me that Cyndre has a valid point &#8211; by restricting this, Mythic will be restricting at least some of their players. Not restricting just ganking, but restricting valid activities, such as doing lower-level quests for fun (or faction rep, if that exists in WAR), farming mats for professions/AH, etc.</p>
<p>It looks to me as if either: this is a poor decision on the part of Mythic, or &#8211; WAR is a much poorer game compared to WoW (AH/professions/faction-rep not as developed). I&#8217;ll say however that since I haven&#8217;t played WAR I don&#8217;t know for certain if this is true &#8211; maybe WAR simply has found clever ways to let players get what they need without going to lower level areas&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris F</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/09/13/mythics-epic-fail/comment-page-1/#comment-27628</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=1949#comment-27628</guid>
		<description>@Sifo - going to expand on your comment because you are right. Open PVP actually ruins the core intented experience. What makes WAR shine is that you are actually contributing to the game/WAR effort from level 1. Other games the leveling process is just a time sink before you get to the point where you can participate in the purpose of the game - not true with WAR - you are participating from level 1.

Area capture in lower levels rolls over into higher levels. If your side &#039;owns&#039; a zone at Tier 1 a portion of points rolls into the WAR effort in T2, a little in T3, and even some in T4. Allowing players to go back unchickened into earlier tiers completely and utterly marginalizes the point of the game - that you can help out your realm from the minute you roll your character. This is well represented and controlled in the Core ruleset.

In the Open ruleset, its just silly. Now, you have to send one of your R40 RR80&#039;s solo into T2 to take and hold the Battlefield Objectives so you can work towards the city siege. It will only take 1 as the content is trivialized. Now the other side has to send 1 too. Wait, need reinforcements - better send more! This will happen in all tiers across all pairings.

So now, your uber top levels are babysitting one-shottable mobs for the WAR effort instead of fighting with comprable characters in a truely challenging setting. Not only that, but level appropriate characters in the content can&#039;t participate meaningfully in any sort of way. So you just ruined both the top end players game and the level appropriate players game at the same time to cater to a dillusioned principle of &#039;Open PvP&#039;.

Best way it should have been done, is to not allow you to go back to tiers. You have to stay in your level appropriate tier, but take away the flagging mechanic to begin with. So EVERY area in t2, if you are in that area, you are flagged. You try to go to t1, you chicken. I do agree that it is silly that if you run into a PQ area you can&#039;t fight your enemies, I&#039;m not debating that. The fact that the Open ruleset completely undermines the objective of the way the game was designed is poor vision. Forcing characters to have to move back tiers to defend people who can&#039;t defend themselves may be fun for the ganking crowd, but I am pretty sure even an intelligent ganker will end up getting bored of the sheer stupidity and lack of challenge of it all while upper level characters are fighting over meaningful objectives while they hit the &#039;1&#039; key wasting their time with the lowbies.

To each his own, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sifo &#8211; going to expand on your comment because you are right. Open PVP actually ruins the core intented experience. What makes WAR shine is that you are actually contributing to the game/WAR effort from level 1. Other games the leveling process is just a time sink before you get to the point where you can participate in the purpose of the game &#8211; not true with WAR &#8211; you are participating from level 1.</p>
<p>Area capture in lower levels rolls over into higher levels. If your side &#8216;owns&#8217; a zone at Tier 1 a portion of points rolls into the WAR effort in T2, a little in T3, and even some in T4. Allowing players to go back unchickened into earlier tiers completely and utterly marginalizes the point of the game &#8211; that you can help out your realm from the minute you roll your character. This is well represented and controlled in the Core ruleset.</p>
<p>In the Open ruleset, its just silly. Now, you have to send one of your R40 RR80&#8217;s solo into T2 to take and hold the Battlefield Objectives so you can work towards the city siege. It will only take 1 as the content is trivialized. Now the other side has to send 1 too. Wait, need reinforcements &#8211; better send more! This will happen in all tiers across all pairings.</p>
<p>So now, your uber top levels are babysitting one-shottable mobs for the WAR effort instead of fighting with comprable characters in a truely challenging setting. Not only that, but level appropriate characters in the content can&#8217;t participate meaningfully in any sort of way. So you just ruined both the top end players game and the level appropriate players game at the same time to cater to a dillusioned principle of &#8216;Open PvP&#8217;.</p>
<p>Best way it should have been done, is to not allow you to go back to tiers. You have to stay in your level appropriate tier, but take away the flagging mechanic to begin with. So EVERY area in t2, if you are in that area, you are flagged. You try to go to t1, you chicken. I do agree that it is silly that if you run into a PQ area you can&#8217;t fight your enemies, I&#8217;m not debating that. The fact that the Open ruleset completely undermines the objective of the way the game was designed is poor vision. Forcing characters to have to move back tiers to defend people who can&#8217;t defend themselves may be fun for the ganking crowd, but I am pretty sure even an intelligent ganker will end up getting bored of the sheer stupidity and lack of challenge of it all while upper level characters are fighting over meaningful objectives while they hit the &#8216;1&#8242; key wasting their time with the lowbies.</p>
<p>To each his own, I suppose.</p>
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