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	<title>Comments on: A PvP MMO Subscription</title>
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	<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/12/04/a-pvp-mmo-subscription/</link>
	<description>a group of adventurers on an epic quest</description>
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		<title>By: Snazel</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/12/04/a-pvp-mmo-subscription/comment-page-1/#comment-29054</link>
		<dc:creator>Snazel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=2837#comment-29054</guid>
		<description>Naturally any game is judged by one&#039;s own taste or &quot;what one is looking for&quot; in a video game, my comment is no different.

In my opinion however, you are absolutely right, but you didn&#039;t go far enough, in critisizing WAR&#039;s lack of diversity.

Warhammer sold themselves out as a slash and burn PVP game, period. LOTRO on the other hand, sold themselves on their narrative strength. Both are equally one-dimensional though, and given their relative lack of *overwhelming* success, I think we can deduce the gaming community at large, wants more than just one dimension in order to subscribe.

Clearly Warhammer, greatly over estimated the interest in their game, which is why we&#039;re seeing so many servers coalescing, creating &quot;virtual retirement&quot; for over half the servers the game launched with.

When the game has a full set of races, classes, more diversity in the builds; better emotes, better RP tools, and becomes a &quot;real boy&quot; (instead of a PVP-based wooden puppet), I will return. Until then, there are too many other games, on a variety of platforms that I can choose from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Naturally any game is judged by one&#8217;s own taste or &#8220;what one is looking for&#8221; in a video game, my comment is no different.</p>
<p>In my opinion however, you are absolutely right, but you didn&#8217;t go far enough, in critisizing WAR&#8217;s lack of diversity.</p>
<p>Warhammer sold themselves out as a slash and burn PVP game, period. LOTRO on the other hand, sold themselves on their narrative strength. Both are equally one-dimensional though, and given their relative lack of *overwhelming* success, I think we can deduce the gaming community at large, wants more than just one dimension in order to subscribe.</p>
<p>Clearly Warhammer, greatly over estimated the interest in their game, which is why we&#8217;re seeing so many servers coalescing, creating &#8220;virtual retirement&#8221; for over half the servers the game launched with.</p>
<p>When the game has a full set of races, classes, more diversity in the builds; better emotes, better RP tools, and becomes a &#8220;real boy&#8221; (instead of a PVP-based wooden puppet), I will return. Until then, there are too many other games, on a variety of platforms that I can choose from.</p>
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		<title>By: syncaine</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/12/04/a-pvp-mmo-subscription/comment-page-1/#comment-28991</link>
		<dc:creator>syncaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=2837#comment-28991</guid>
		<description>My main issue with LoTRO is that while it has a story, at best you just get to watch it, and you know EXACTLY whats going to happen at all of the key points. It felt like re-reading a book, and that&#039;s just not something I&#039;ve ever really liked. Never saw much of a story raiding in WoW, other than the story of a Ony the loot pinata never dropping my axe.

But as others have said, many people would actually prefer lateral expansions in an MMO. Having a new area to fight over, or new classes to group with, mixes up PvP enough to make it seem new, without resetting everything you have previously done. The worst thing to ever happen to DAoC was ToA, and that was literally a pure &quot;further along&quot; expansion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My main issue with LoTRO is that while it has a story, at best you just get to watch it, and you know EXACTLY whats going to happen at all of the key points. It felt like re-reading a book, and that&#8217;s just not something I&#8217;ve ever really liked. Never saw much of a story raiding in WoW, other than the story of a Ony the loot pinata never dropping my axe.</p>
<p>But as others have said, many people would actually prefer lateral expansions in an MMO. Having a new area to fight over, or new classes to group with, mixes up PvP enough to make it seem new, without resetting everything you have previously done. The worst thing to ever happen to DAoC was ToA, and that was literally a pure &#8220;further along&#8221; expansion.</p>
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		<title>By: Ravious</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/12/04/a-pvp-mmo-subscription/comment-page-1/#comment-28972</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=2837#comment-28972</guid>
		<description>A very uplifting picture. ;)  It was a good match, lots of back and forth. At least I poured enough oil on you guys at Ghrond&#039;s to heal the bruises and burns you caused. =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very uplifting picture. ;)  It was a good match, lots of back and forth. At least I poured enough oil on you guys at Ghrond&#8217;s to heal the bruises and burns you caused. =)</p>
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		<title>By: Winged Nazgul</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/12/04/a-pvp-mmo-subscription/comment-page-1/#comment-28969</link>
		<dc:creator>Winged Nazgul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=2837#comment-28969</guid>
		<description>Ran into you in Tor Anroc last night with my BW alt.  

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/8924/playswythm004sf9.jpg

Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ran into you in Tor Anroc last night with my BW alt.  </p>
<p><a href="http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/8924/playswythm004sf9.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/8924/playswythm004sf9.jpg</a></p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Complaining squared &#171; Escort Service</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/12/04/a-pvp-mmo-subscription/comment-page-1/#comment-28961</link>
		<dc:creator>Complaining squared &#171; Escort Service</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=2837#comment-28961</guid>
		<description>[...] only care about the WP. You can get the full low-down on the patch notes here. Also, I was reading Ravious&#8217;s post about WAR and PvP, and found that I generally agree with him. I feel like WAR needs more PvE [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] only care about the WP. You can get the full low-down on the patch notes here. Also, I was reading Ravious&#8217;s post about WAR and PvP, and found that I generally agree with him. I feel like WAR needs more PvE [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/12/04/a-pvp-mmo-subscription/comment-page-1/#comment-28951</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=2837#comment-28951</guid>
		<description>I feel about the same as Ravius. I think the fantasy of massive PvP battles where everyone was actually fighting for their side and for a real cause would be awesome. The reality, however, is that it simply isn&#039;t possible on a technical scale yet and most PvP players could give a shit about causes or factional loyalty. They want to &quot;pwn faces.&quot;

I&#039;ve never been a believer that PvP and RPGs even work -- at least not the vertically scaled MMORPGs we currently play that use levels and gear with stats.

Story-wise, did WoW ever have one? Or EQ2? Or...? They had small stories if you gave a crap to read the quest text, but nothing really had a continuing storyline other than Guild Wars and now LOTRO -- both games where you *CAN* reach the end of any of the stories without needing to be part of some uber raiding guild.

While I&#039;m enjoying Moria, I remain disappointed that it continued the vertical climb by raising the level cap. But then I&#039;ve always been more a fan of having a lateral expansion with perhaps only a very gradual vertical gradient. Guild Wars did this masterfully -- it was a shame the game even had those 20 &quot;tutorial levels&quot; at all because the rest of the *real* game was all lateral content at level cap but it managed to continue the challenges without needing to fool with outdated systems like levels, level caps, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel about the same as Ravius. I think the fantasy of massive PvP battles where everyone was actually fighting for their side and for a real cause would be awesome. The reality, however, is that it simply isn&#8217;t possible on a technical scale yet and most PvP players could give a shit about causes or factional loyalty. They want to &#8220;pwn faces.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never been a believer that PvP and RPGs even work &#8212; at least not the vertically scaled MMORPGs we currently play that use levels and gear with stats.</p>
<p>Story-wise, did WoW ever have one? Or EQ2? Or&#8230;? They had small stories if you gave a crap to read the quest text, but nothing really had a continuing storyline other than Guild Wars and now LOTRO &#8212; both games where you *CAN* reach the end of any of the stories without needing to be part of some uber raiding guild.</p>
<p>While I&#8217;m enjoying Moria, I remain disappointed that it continued the vertical climb by raising the level cap. But then I&#8217;ve always been more a fan of having a lateral expansion with perhaps only a very gradual vertical gradient. Guild Wars did this masterfully &#8212; it was a shame the game even had those 20 &#8220;tutorial levels&#8221; at all because the rest of the *real* game was all lateral content at level cap but it managed to continue the challenges without needing to fool with outdated systems like levels, level caps, etc.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ravious</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/12/04/a-pvp-mmo-subscription/comment-page-1/#comment-28950</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=2837#comment-28950</guid>
		<description>Cool. I got to keep Ravious for my Zealot, but sadly Lolrus the Black Orc is no more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool. I got to keep Ravious for my Zealot, but sadly Lolrus the Black Orc is no more.</p>
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		<title>By: Werit</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/12/04/a-pvp-mmo-subscription/comment-page-1/#comment-28949</link>
		<dc:creator>Werit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=2837#comment-28949</guid>
		<description>If you see Tirew, it&#039;s me...  someone took Werit on that server. grrr</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you see Tirew, it&#8217;s me&#8230;  someone took Werit on that server. grrr</p>
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		<title>By: Ravious</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/12/04/a-pvp-mmo-subscription/comment-page-1/#comment-28948</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=2837#comment-28948</guid>
		<description>&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.lesliehawes.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/excellent-burns.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;Excellent&quot; /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://www.lesliehawes.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/excellent-burns.jpg" alt="Excellent" /></p>
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		<title>By: Werit</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/12/04/a-pvp-mmo-subscription/comment-page-1/#comment-28947</link>
		<dc:creator>Werit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=2837#comment-28947</guid>
		<description>Rav:  CoW went to Badlands too, so we are enemies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rav:  CoW went to Badlands too, so we are enemies.</p>
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