Barnett though is a perfect example of putting the cart before the horse. If hype>results then hypee=scapegoat. I really think he means well, but doubt if he has mmo design skills to back his flapping lips.

Knitting is a hobby, because it’s something you can come back to anytime you want. Knitting a hat is not a hobby, because it’s a task of finite duration – at some point the hat is finished, and you can’t keep knitting it.

In the context of gaming, playing Half Life 2 is not a hobby (for most), because at some point it comes to an end. Playing Civilization is a hobby, because you can keep coming back to it indefinitely.

In the MMO world, the difference between a game and a hobby is it’s lasting power. There’s nothing wrong with growing bored with something – I’ve switched hobbies many times. Games don’t need infinite content to be hobby worthy. But for a game to become a hobby, it must be possible for you to grow bored with it _before_ you run out of things to do.

I like some good Zen grinding on occasion (especially if combat is fun, like in Wizard101 or Atlantica Online), but if the game *forces* me to grind for a gear/level gate check to see more content, I’m not pleased.

In my volleyball days, it was definitely a hobby. I would practice serves and spike against the wall for hours at a time, all by myself in an empty court. I didn’t do that because it was required of me to “qualify” for the fun part of playing with my friends, I did it because I enjoyed the physical exertion and honing of my skills.

I’m setting up another post? Fore! :)

Grind is often compared to a job, the old daily grind. But if you love your job– well I’m repeating myself.

Some people automatically hate any grind, the presence of repetition irks them. Just like I automatically hate every zerg, I think large numbers of players isn’t more fun, it’s less. But I keep encountering players who just love swarming everything in the largest possible groups, PvE or PvP. They boggle the hell out of me, as I’m sure my love of farming mobs for rare drops probably wouldn’t work for you.

@Ravious: Exactly. Collecting rare drops is more hobbylike, the grinding process is killing the mobs until they drop. Otherwise you’d be collecting rather common drops and while that could be a hobby, it doesn’t seem like much of one. Especially if the definition of hobby includes time consumption, dedication, effort, etc..

There are definitely grinds that aren’t really connected to any hobby-like qualities, like just plain stretched content with no other purpose but to slow things down when you’re already on the course (IE: large amounts of exp needed for the last few levels).

The thing is many hobbies, in the dedicated sense, require “grinding.” Sometimes it is fun, the Dungeons and Dragons game master prepping the dungeon for the players to romp through while putting a twist on the story. Sometimes it is tedious, like painting a miniatures army and making sure the 40 pikemen all generally look the same. Sometimes it is boring, like sitting at a deer stand for 6 hours in the hopes of a buck coming by.

I think, Manasi, you came close to the idea in my head. Grind included in an MMO as a hobby element is something you have to do to get the reward you want. Going back to the hunter example. I think that hunter’s believe that the waiting part is part of their experience. It is part of hunting. However, if they have to wait at the deerstand for a week to get one missed shot (too much salt) then the experience is ruined, but if they wait just long enough to feel that they did the right thing to bag that 12-point buck then it elevates the experience of their hobby.

Grinding in itself is not a hobby, but grinding is a hobby element.