Comments on: Generic Post http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/02/02/generic-post/ a group of adventurers on an epic quest Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:52:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Reinventing WAR? | NecroRogIcon http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/02/02/generic-post/comment-page-1/#comment-29668 Reinventing WAR? | NecroRogIcon Tue, 03 Feb 2009 17:08:33 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3227#comment-29668 [...] past few months WAR has seen a lot of changes, big and small. Some of it goes with the territory for any MMO release. The more game-changing stuff has been accoladed while my mouth is agape. If [...] [...] past few months WAR has seen a lot of changes, big and small. Some of it goes with the territory for any MMO release. The more game-changing stuff has been accoladed while my mouth is agape. If [...]

]]> By: Tim http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/02/02/generic-post/comment-page-1/#comment-29664 Tim Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:53:32 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3227#comment-29664 You sound like de Tocqueville (or Machiavelli, or Twain, or Jefferson - or whomever first said it): in a free market, the people get the games they deserve. That's why it's only through activism, protest and participation that we'll get better games. Vive la resistance! You sound like de Tocqueville (or Machiavelli, or Twain, or Jefferson – or whomever first said it): in a free market, the people get the games they deserve.

That’s why it’s only through activism, protest and participation that we’ll get better games.

Vive la resistance!

]]> By: Julian http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/02/02/generic-post/comment-page-1/#comment-29663 Julian Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:46:09 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3227#comment-29663 One example I can think of regarding flat out lying, top of my head, was in the retail box for Half-Life 2. It was one of those (popular now) boxes that you flip the "cover" and there's a spread with something or other. Some nice art, screenies, whathaveyou. Well the spread on this box depicted a scene which was not included in the game, showing characters wearing clothes that could not be found in the game at all. This wasn't a scene I might have missed while playing because HL2 is a very linear game, and there were only a few spots during that progression where I could have spotted the depicted scene. It was just an invention. That to me is already dipping its toes into false advertising proper, even if it wasn't in an advert. It's a similar case to doctored/touched up screenshots for upcoming games or technologies. You're not showing what the thing will do. So what are you showing? Something else. This surfaces regularly every time there's a new generation of consoles coming up and everybody rushes to show how cool the graphics are and retouch those screenshots to hell and back until the screenshot has nothign to do with the product. On the PC they can -kinda- get away with it arguing for different user configurations or settings that, well oh well, the user is dumb and can't reproduce the screenshot, but hey in house we can. On consoles... what configuration? Which settings? They still routinely get away with it because nobody calls them on it. One thing is hype, bombastic language, dubious claims and so on. Another thing is to show something that is not in your game and/or your game is not capable of. That's just false advertising. One example I can think of regarding flat out lying, top of my head, was in the retail box for Half-Life 2. It was one of those (popular now) boxes that you flip the “cover” and there’s a spread with something or other. Some nice art, screenies, whathaveyou.

Well the spread on this box depicted a scene which was not included in the game, showing characters wearing clothes that could not be found in the game at all. This wasn’t a scene I might have missed while playing because HL2 is a very linear game, and there were only a few spots during that progression where I could have spotted the depicted scene. It was just an invention. That to me is already dipping its toes into false advertising proper, even if it wasn’t in an advert.

It’s a similar case to doctored/touched up screenshots for upcoming games or technologies. You’re not showing what the thing will do. So what are you showing? Something else. This surfaces regularly every time there’s a new generation of consoles coming up and everybody rushes to show how cool the graphics are and retouch those screenshots to hell and back until the screenshot has nothign to do with the product. On the PC they can -kinda- get away with it arguing for different user configurations or settings that, well oh well, the user is dumb and can’t reproduce the screenshot, but hey in house we can. On consoles… what configuration? Which settings? They still routinely get away with it because nobody calls them on it.

One thing is hype, bombastic language, dubious claims and so on. Another thing is to show something that is not in your game and/or your game is not capable of. That’s just false advertising.

]]> By: Yeebo http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/02/02/generic-post/comment-page-1/#comment-29661 Yeebo Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:11:22 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3227#comment-29661 I demand a stable game with minimal bugs. Because MMOs so often fail to meat this minimum standard, I simply won't buy one that I haven't previewed via a trial or a beta. It does irk me the we are still getting hit with fiascos like the AoC launch after more than a decade of MMOs. Shady PR, on the other hand, just doesn't bother me. It's PR, I don't expect to be able to take it at face value. Why should we hold marketing from PC game developers to a higher standard than other forms of marketing? Being flat out lied too about the feature set of a product is one thing. If that's what you mean by "shady PR" than I guess I would agree with you. However, to me misleading or vacuous PR ("1 million characters created," "free new classes coming to WAR," "one of the most popular MMOs in North America," "one of the most successful launches in MMO history," ect.) isn't anywhere near that. I demand a stable game with minimal bugs. Because MMOs so often fail to meat this minimum standard, I simply won’t buy one that I haven’t previewed via a trial or a beta. It does irk me the we are still getting hit with fiascos like the AoC launch after more than a decade of MMOs.

Shady PR, on the other hand, just doesn’t bother me. It’s PR, I don’t expect to be able to take it at face value. Why should we hold marketing from PC game developers to a higher standard than other forms of marketing?

Being flat out lied too about the feature set of a product is one thing. If that’s what you mean by “shady PR” than I guess I would agree with you. However, to me misleading or vacuous PR (“1 million characters created,” “free new classes coming to WAR,” “one of the most popular MMOs in North America,” “one of the most successful launches in MMO history,” ect.) isn’t anywhere near that.

]]> By: Zubon http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/02/02/generic-post/comment-page-1/#comment-29660 Zubon Tue, 03 Feb 2009 00:21:25 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3227#comment-29660 If Eddie Izzard said it, I guess I'm in. If Eddie Izzard said it, I guess I’m in.

]]> By: Katherine http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/02/02/generic-post/comment-page-1/#comment-29657 Katherine Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:41:51 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3227#comment-29657 People are gullible and believe the hype about a game that PR and marketing put out. So they have to get it as soon as it is released, without waiting for a free trial to come out, without waiting for the truth about a game's completeness to come out, etc. Always a problem when you cannot try before you buy. I've stopped going to the movies, because every time some mediocre movie comes out, and is reported to gross more than any movie before it at box office, it sickens me. I'll rent movies first, and then buy them if I think I will watch them again. I try not to buy games where I haven't played the demo or a free trial first. Then I know I'm putting my money where I want to. People are gullible and believe the hype about a game that PR and marketing put out. So they have to get it as soon as it is released, without waiting for a free trial to come out, without waiting for the truth about a game’s completeness to come out, etc. Always a problem when you cannot try before you buy. I’ve stopped going to the movies, because every time some mediocre movie comes out, and is reported to gross more than any movie before it at box office, it sickens me. I’ll rent movies first, and then buy them if I think I will watch them again. I try not to buy games where I haven’t played the demo or a free trial first. Then I know I’m putting my money where I want to.

]]> By: ShadowWAR http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/02/02/generic-post/comment-page-1/#comment-29656 ShadowWAR Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:03:49 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3227#comment-29656 @Tesh In part, that's why I have such high hopes for SW:tOR. Useing Simutronics game engine means the onus to perfect and de-bug a large portion of the game is on the shoulders of another company. Nothing increases quality like competition in the free-market! @Tesh

In part, that’s why I have such high hopes for SW:tOR. Useing Simutronics game engine means the onus to perfect and de-bug a large portion of the game is on the shoulders of another company. Nothing increases quality like competition in the free-market!

]]> By: Tesh http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/02/02/generic-post/comment-page-1/#comment-29655 Tesh Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:08:28 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3227#comment-29655 I think it's plenty reasonable to expect a stable launch for an MMO. I know that there will be problems that only live testing can solve as the zerg horde stomps their way through the untested code, but a lot of problems I see with new MMOs are things that could have been solved with a bit more planning and better execution. (Not even more money, just better project management. As a rat in the warren of game development, I see a *lot* of things that could be done better.) Shoveling something out the door thinking that you'll fix it later isn't just poor coding practice and poor business, it's bad PR, which can kill an MMO. Perhaps this is one reason to champion the idea of MMO third party engine developers. The Unreal engine has made some game development cheaper and more reliable... maybe it's time that the MMO genre finds a similar solution. I think it’s plenty reasonable to expect a stable launch for an MMO. I know that there will be problems that only live testing can solve as the zerg horde stomps their way through the untested code, but a lot of problems I see with new MMOs are things that could have been solved with a bit more planning and better execution. (Not even more money, just better project management. As a rat in the warren of game development, I see a *lot* of things that could be done better.) Shoveling something out the door thinking that you’ll fix it later isn’t just poor coding practice and poor business, it’s bad PR, which can kill an MMO.

Perhaps this is one reason to champion the idea of MMO third party engine developers. The Unreal engine has made some game development cheaper and more reliable… maybe it’s time that the MMO genre finds a similar solution.

]]> By: Jezebeau http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/02/02/generic-post/comment-page-1/#comment-29653 Jezebeau Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:02:31 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3227#comment-29653 I'm not so sure "should" enters into it. It is the way it is. I choose to indulge myself with what's available. You may hold out, hoping others will join you in boycotting the current business model, but it won't work. Publishers wouldn't see the light and suddenly start investing another year or two's development costs into each of their games. They'd just invest their money in another genre with an audience that has reasonable expectations. I’m not so sure “should” enters into it. It is the way it is. I choose to indulge myself with what’s available. You may hold out, hoping others will join you in boycotting the current business model, but it won’t work. Publishers wouldn’t see the light and suddenly start investing another year or two’s development costs into each of their games. They’d just invest their money in another genre with an audience that has reasonable expectations.

]]> By: Chris F http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/02/02/generic-post/comment-page-1/#comment-29649 Chris F Mon, 02 Feb 2009 15:16:24 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3227#comment-29649 Just because "it is the way it is" doesn't mean we should accept it. I doubt we will ever see a MMO launched bug free and feature complete - but the more consumers relay the information to developers that it is "unacceptable" (via box sales, cancelled subs, or just information in general), the better chance we have of getting more complete games. I am not an Ostrich. Just because “it is the way it is” doesn’t mean we should accept it. I doubt we will ever see a MMO launched bug free and feature complete – but the more consumers relay the information to developers that it is “unacceptable” (via box sales, cancelled subs, or just information in general), the better chance we have of getting more complete games.

I am not an Ostrich.

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