So I expect if people are doing that, Turbine will fix it pretty quickly. By pretty quickly I mean a month or so :)

Sometimes, you’re left wondering if you’ve done it correctly as intended. Shortcuts do feel exploitive, but some of the more clever approaches– well it always seems a shame when the encounters get patched so players will do it the “right” way.

Maybe designers get a little too worked up over having their little traps solved in ways they didn’t expect. Sort of like a riddle which can be correctly answered multiple ways, but the riddle-maker insists on a specific expected answer.

I’d like to see more content that can be approached from a wider variety of tactics. Or that solutions discovered by players get treated as acceptable, although clearly there should be limits on the more obvious workarounds.

Either that, or Turbine will ‘revamp’ the instances to make them a little more manageable. I don’t know how likely that is, but it would certainly be helpful for those of us who, more often than not, have to resort to PUG’s.

It wouldn’t be so annoying if I don’t run the Forges on hard-mode while killing every mob and boss on the way EASILY within the 30 min timer. I love the boss fights in the Forges, they’re not just tank n spank like other instances, and even being stunned by trolls is funny these days.

I hope they fix some of these exploits, I really do. I love the different challenges in the Moria instances. Of course, I am lucky enough to run in a mostly fixed group, but am hoping to show the kin the strategies we use, and we’re in no way a balanced group :-)

No that’s not correct for all instances, killing the last boss withing 40 mins of the first is ‘correctly’ completing Hard Mode in the Forges. All bosses are still intended to be completed.

Each HM instance has it’s own requirement; Grand Stairs – get to Nardur the shield within ten minutes of starting the first encounter (other bosses are skippable in this instance without the use of exploits), Deep Delvings – Fight the final boss without using the lights etc.

The ‘complete hard mode to get the radiance armour grind’ has been poorly implemented. If you don’t have luxury of a static group of kin to run with, PUGing can be a dank, endless tunnel of heartbreak. I think I’ve done Forges nine times now with PUGs using both full clear and skip bosses method.

Which immediatly brings to mind the question (only half-joking): Why on earth design content that’s ‘meant’ to be skipped.

Example, a dungeon with (x) number of encounters that must be done in 60 minutes or less or the final reward evaporates. That’s just -begging- to be skipped. If the devs designed that with the intention of the hopes that players would ‘buff it up’ and try and try and try until they got so good that they were able to chew through it linearly, encounter by encounter, ‘as intended’… well, they’re being naive. Specially if they designed the dungeon allowing for ways to skip it.

I don’t subscribe much to the idea of “playing as intended”. I think the intent is ultimately determined by the players, not so much the devs. Devs can intent for a linear progression, but if players start skipping or conducting it non-linearly, yeah that’s wonderful, but also means the original design failed in its stated mission.

In other words, from a pseudo-economic perspective, if players are skipping content it means they are unwilling to pay the “price” of the content. “Price” being usually in this case time and effort. The content doesn’t sell, so it’s not played. At that point devs have a choice: Artificially subject players to pay the price of content, or make the content cheaper so it’s consumed.

I’m not arguing for making everything cheap and every boss a loot piñata. But there are many, many examples of devs initially “pricing” their content way beyond the means of their players, or assuming players were willing to pay such high prices. Toning down content or making more content more accessible is nothing but adjusting for the real purchasing power of the players.

Are you gonna take the bus or behave “as intended”?

I’ve been in groups that took a shortcut to get the reward and then afterwards completed the content as intended. In the end it’s up to the players to decide if they want to “exploit the gamesystems” or play as the designers probably intended it. If your fellowship wants to take the shortcut (and you feel its very wrong) you can always leave and start your own hard hardmode group. I know it IS possible… and fun :)