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	<title>Comments on: Openings, Good and Bad</title>
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	<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/04/23/openings-good-and-bad/</link>
	<description>a group of adventurers on an epic quest</description>
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		<title>By: The Uncanny Valley of Genre Games &#124; Kill Ten Rats</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/04/23/openings-good-and-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-62556</link>
		<dc:creator>The Uncanny Valley of Genre Games &#124; Kill Ten Rats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Feb 2011 06:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3796#comment-62556</guid>
		<description>[...] presume that goes away as you get into the Rift-unique stuff that lies beyond the introduction. That is a big problem. The tutorial zone is horrible in the sense that it shows off every way that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] presume that goes away as you get into the Rift-unique stuff that lies beyond the introduction. That is a big problem. The tutorial zone is horrible in the sense that it shows off every way that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: /AFK - April 26 &#171; Bio Break</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/04/23/openings-good-and-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-30858</link>
		<dc:creator>/AFK - April 26 &#171; Bio Break</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3796#comment-30858</guid>
		<description>[...] Zubon at KTR looks at something that I&#8217;ve spent a lot of time contemplating as well &#8212; the opening moments of any given MMO and how they handle it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Zubon at KTR looks at something that I&#8217;ve spent a lot of time contemplating as well &#8212; the opening moments of any given MMO and how they handle it. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: geldonyetich</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/04/23/openings-good-and-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-30836</link>
		<dc:creator>geldonyetich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 00:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3796#comment-30836</guid>
		<description>Seems to me that Age of Conan&#039;s biggest problem is neither the tutorial nor Tortage, but immediately after Tortage, dumping the players in a completely different experience at level 20.  It goes from being all about dynamic story telling to being a typical grind extremely quickly.

Really, if avoiding the typical grind was the goal, the game after Tortage should have been scrapped.  Maybe give the players the first ten levels of Tortage, then slowly release another level every month as the rest of the game is trickled in.  Continue an interactive story thusly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me that Age of Conan&#8217;s biggest problem is neither the tutorial nor Tortage, but immediately after Tortage, dumping the players in a completely different experience at level 20.  It goes from being all about dynamic story telling to being a typical grind extremely quickly.</p>
<p>Really, if avoiding the typical grind was the goal, the game after Tortage should have been scrapped.  Maybe give the players the first ten levels of Tortage, then slowly release another level every month as the rest of the game is trickled in.  Continue an interactive story thusly.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/04/23/openings-good-and-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-30808</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3796#comment-30808</guid>
		<description>My first experience in WoW was of getting lost. In the night-elf starting area. It took me ages to find where the quest giver was that I was supposed to return to. But I guess it didn&#039;t put me off because I wasn&#039;t paying for it, I was playing on a friend&#039;s account.

If a game rings true with me at the beginning during the trial I&#039;ll throw money at it straight away, but not if my free trial is me playing the full game on a friend&#039;s computer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first experience in WoW was of getting lost. In the night-elf starting area. It took me ages to find where the quest giver was that I was supposed to return to. But I guess it didn&#8217;t put me off because I wasn&#8217;t paying for it, I was playing on a friend&#8217;s account.</p>
<p>If a game rings true with me at the beginning during the trial I&#8217;ll throw money at it straight away, but not if my free trial is me playing the full game on a friend&#8217;s computer.</p>
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		<title>By: boatorious</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/04/23/openings-good-and-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-30805</link>
		<dc:creator>boatorious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3796#comment-30805</guid>
		<description>I always thought the beginning of CoX was awful because it had that cumbersome character editor (and no matter what I did my character looked awful) and then, after that, you had to pick your powers -- which felt like having to pick a WoW talent tree before I had ever played the game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always thought the beginning of CoX was awful because it had that cumbersome character editor (and no matter what I did my character looked awful) and then, after that, you had to pick your powers &#8212; which felt like having to pick a WoW talent tree before I had ever played the game.</p>
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		<title>By: foolsage</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/04/23/openings-good-and-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-30799</link>
		<dc:creator>foolsage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3796#comment-30799</guid>
		<description>I agree that Outbreak is too spread out.  Half the time spent there is just engaged in running from one location to another.  I favor immediacy in tutorials... put things right in front of the newb and explain it all clearly off the bat.

WoW&#039;s not bad for this... you can always (as far as I can recall) see the quest mobs for the initial quest from the NPC who gives the quest.  So it isn&#039;t &quot;run wayyyy over in that direction until you see something that might be a target&quot;, it&#039;s &quot;kill those things right over there&quot;.

I think there&#039;s a balance to be struck in tutorials between introducing the complete novice to a wholly new game and gaming system, and introducing a player well versed in the genre to the specifics of this game.  My bias is to err on the side of simplicity but allow players to skip any or all of the tutorial.  That way total newbs aren&#039;t overwhelmed, and more experienced players aren&#039;t held back.

AoC&#039;s Tortage sequence was very well produced, but that&#039;s not the tutorial.  The tutorial was the single-player island sequence before arriving at Tortage.  It was honestly a bit on the long side but well polished and generally fun, and did provide most of the explanation needed while allowing for exploration and experimentation (e.g. if you swam into the lagoon behind where you spawned, you&#039;d find a treasure chest underwater).  Though the rails were pretty explicit (and arguably need to be in tutorials) the island sequence had hidden content and the ability to skip sections, albeit with the price of being underprepared for later sections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Outbreak is too spread out.  Half the time spent there is just engaged in running from one location to another.  I favor immediacy in tutorials&#8230; put things right in front of the newb and explain it all clearly off the bat.</p>
<p>WoW&#8217;s not bad for this&#8230; you can always (as far as I can recall) see the quest mobs for the initial quest from the NPC who gives the quest.  So it isn&#8217;t &#8220;run wayyyy over in that direction until you see something that might be a target&#8221;, it&#8217;s &#8220;kill those things right over there&#8221;.</p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s a balance to be struck in tutorials between introducing the complete novice to a wholly new game and gaming system, and introducing a player well versed in the genre to the specifics of this game.  My bias is to err on the side of simplicity but allow players to skip any or all of the tutorial.  That way total newbs aren&#8217;t overwhelmed, and more experienced players aren&#8217;t held back.</p>
<p>AoC&#8217;s Tortage sequence was very well produced, but that&#8217;s not the tutorial.  The tutorial was the single-player island sequence before arriving at Tortage.  It was honestly a bit on the long side but well polished and generally fun, and did provide most of the explanation needed while allowing for exploration and experimentation (e.g. if you swam into the lagoon behind where you spawned, you&#8217;d find a treasure chest underwater).  Though the rails were pretty explicit (and arguably need to be in tutorials) the island sequence had hidden content and the ability to skip sections, albeit with the price of being underprepared for later sections.</p>
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		<title>By: Saylah</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/04/23/openings-good-and-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-30798</link>
		<dc:creator>Saylah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3796#comment-30798</guid>
		<description>I think there are design decisions that show within the first few minutes that hold true for the rest of the game.  I loved the WOW leveling 1 to 20 actually which is probably why ROM hit an immediate chord with me.  Yes, AOC 1 to 20 was the lie in polish but not in game design.  Heavily instanced, trash loot, screwed itemization and limited exploration.  That didn&#039;t change.  PoTBS was the same. I could tell within the first few minutes that it was an instance-fest even more so than AOC since every occurrence of combat is instanced in some manner.  So while polish might not be certain that quickly overall design choices can be very apparent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are design decisions that show within the first few minutes that hold true for the rest of the game.  I loved the WOW leveling 1 to 20 actually which is probably why ROM hit an immediate chord with me.  Yes, AOC 1 to 20 was the lie in polish but not in game design.  Heavily instanced, trash loot, screwed itemization and limited exploration.  That didn&#8217;t change.  PoTBS was the same. I could tell within the first few minutes that it was an instance-fest even more so than AOC since every occurrence of combat is instanced in some manner.  So while polish might not be certain that quickly overall design choices can be very apparent.</p>
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		<title>By: Rog</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/04/23/openings-good-and-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-30797</link>
		<dc:creator>Rog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3796#comment-30797</guid>
		<description>This is an unfortunate truism, because those first 15 minutes in the game are just a teaser really and rarely translate to how good the game is overall.

I&#039;ve become a firm believer in humble beginnings for an RPG, character-wise at least. That can be hard to translate that into great and glorious, although as Julian comments, it&#039;s more important that it just feels right (and hey, I&#039;ll give a nod to any Soylent Green reference). I dunno, maybe I&#039;m an RPG snob, but I think RPG players can generally get a good idea of whether the game reaches what they want, without being overly harsh on the opening sequences.

... Addendum:

Just because it was brought up: Soylent Green has the distinction of the first film reference of a videogame. A pre-Atari Computer Space is highlighted, although sadly it was painted white instead of its usual metal-fleck disco splendor.

Now, if you&#039;ve ever played Computer Space, I&#039;d say it&#039;s a very poor first experience for games. Horrible, horrible game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an unfortunate truism, because those first 15 minutes in the game are just a teaser really and rarely translate to how good the game is overall.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve become a firm believer in humble beginnings for an RPG, character-wise at least. That can be hard to translate that into great and glorious, although as Julian comments, it&#8217;s more important that it just feels right (and hey, I&#8217;ll give a nod to any Soylent Green reference). I dunno, maybe I&#8217;m an RPG snob, but I think RPG players can generally get a good idea of whether the game reaches what they want, without being overly harsh on the opening sequences.</p>
<p>&#8230; Addendum:</p>
<p>Just because it was brought up: Soylent Green has the distinction of the first film reference of a videogame. A pre-Atari Computer Space is highlighted, although sadly it was painted white instead of its usual metal-fleck disco splendor.</p>
<p>Now, if you&#8217;ve ever played Computer Space, I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s a very poor first experience for games. Horrible, horrible game.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/04/23/openings-good-and-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-30796</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3796#comment-30796</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll half-disagree with Zubon and say the game doesn&#039;t have to frontload the awesome, but it does have to frontload the tight.

I can put up with a long road to awesome as long as that road is tight, varied and attractive. If I start sniffing &quot;the proper grind&quot; early on that discourages me to keep walking the path, tight as it might be.

Another thing: I will always gravitate heavily towards games that offer marked and distinct variety in the experience of the starting areas and first third or fourth of the game. Not just cosmetics, but quest types, motivations, introductions to the world, etc.

Subjective comment of the year: All this is overridden by games that just feel right. If a game feels right, I&#039;ll play it. And I will not explain this, first because I can&#039;t, and second because it&#039;s like Soylent Green; varies from person to person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll half-disagree with Zubon and say the game doesn&#8217;t have to frontload the awesome, but it does have to frontload the tight.</p>
<p>I can put up with a long road to awesome as long as that road is tight, varied and attractive. If I start sniffing &#8220;the proper grind&#8221; early on that discourages me to keep walking the path, tight as it might be.</p>
<p>Another thing: I will always gravitate heavily towards games that offer marked and distinct variety in the experience of the starting areas and first third or fourth of the game. Not just cosmetics, but quest types, motivations, introductions to the world, etc.</p>
<p>Subjective comment of the year: All this is overridden by games that just feel right. If a game feels right, I&#8217;ll play it. And I will not explain this, first because I can&#8217;t, and second because it&#8217;s like Soylent Green; varies from person to person.</p>
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		<title>By: Syncaine</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/04/23/openings-good-and-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-30795</link>
		<dc:creator>Syncaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=3796#comment-30795</guid>
		<description>Does the &#039;10 minutes of awesome&#039; always apply though? I&#039;ve played enough MMOs to know that generally the first few days are usually a lie, and that the majority of my time (should I stick with it) in any MMO won&#039;t look like the first impression. With that knowledge, the potential of a game is far more important to me than how great the first 3-4 quests are.

AoC and DarkFall are two examples of this. AoC is a lie 1-20, as anyone who bases their purchase decision on the 1-20 game is going to feel cheated. DarkFall on the other hand just drops you into the world and vaguely tells you to go kill goblins (if you even know to pick up the quest). However, at no point since the first minute does DarkFall turn into something else, what you can do in the first minutes is what the game is about. If that works for you, you won&#039;t be disappointed, and if it does not at least you know right away.

WoW is that odd middle ground, where the leveling is great, but then the game does a 180 at the level cap. You have to &#039;grind&#039; through 1-80 if you like endgame, or the game &#039;ends&#039; when you hit the cap if you like leveling/questing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does the &#8217;10 minutes of awesome&#8217; always apply though? I&#8217;ve played enough MMOs to know that generally the first few days are usually a lie, and that the majority of my time (should I stick with it) in any MMO won&#8217;t look like the first impression. With that knowledge, the potential of a game is far more important to me than how great the first 3-4 quests are.</p>
<p>AoC and DarkFall are two examples of this. AoC is a lie 1-20, as anyone who bases their purchase decision on the 1-20 game is going to feel cheated. DarkFall on the other hand just drops you into the world and vaguely tells you to go kill goblins (if you even know to pick up the quest). However, at no point since the first minute does DarkFall turn into something else, what you can do in the first minutes is what the game is about. If that works for you, you won&#8217;t be disappointed, and if it does not at least you know right away.</p>
<p>WoW is that odd middle ground, where the leveling is great, but then the game does a 180 at the level cap. You have to &#8216;grind&#8217; through 1-80 if you like endgame, or the game &#8216;ends&#8217; when you hit the cap if you like leveling/questing.</p>
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