Journalistic Credentials

A response came back from Aventurine.  They said we played two hours, but No! we played nine.   To see everything.  To be everywhere.  We stand behind Zitron, firm, but then… To be careful we will re-review it by Gillen.  Nine is still enough for us to care.   We do not like Darkfall, anywhere.

–Ravious
would you, could you, in the dark?

28 thoughts on “Journalistic Credentials”

  1. Darkfall players with common sense (they exist, yes) just want a review that doesn’t include gross inaccuracies and false facts about the game…is that too much to ask from a major gaming site like EG?

  2. Gotta love mmo reviews that last under 10 hours, although unfortunately 10 hours in Darkfall would feel exactly like 10 hours, and not 2 :(

  3. It would be much different if that EG review was the only place in the human internet that says Darkfall ranges from “not very good” to “suctions on donkey anatomy”. But as it is now, that review wasn’t incendiary; it was saying more or less what is said elsewhere.

  4. If I played an MMO for 9 hours and hated it, that would be enough time for me to decide it sucks. If you design an MMO and expect people to play through hours (or days) of suck to find the good, then you fail as a developer. I think 9 hours is more than enough time to tell if an MMO sucks or not. If you made the first 9 hours suck, that is not my fault. Heck, if it sucked after 2 hours I’d be hard pressed to play any more than that.

  5. Yet if you only played for an hour, sat in character creation for most of it, and then lied and stated you played for 9, would that be legit? Especially when many of the faults you try to point out are just forum lies by those who have never actually played? Seems some of the writers here stand behind this style of ‘journalism’, which is rather disappointing.

  6. I’m not commenting on the review or the reviewer. I’m only commenting on how much time I need to decide if an MMO sucks. 2 hours is enough for me.

    I haven’t even read the review in question and why not? Because I don’t care what anyone thinks of Darkfall because the game never appealed to me for a second and no review (positive or negative) would change my mind. People that make decisions about which video game to play based on a review are wacked. Spend a couple of bucks and find out if you like it. Not one other person in the entire world has the exact same tastes as you do so why trust anyone other than yourself?

    Now, if I was tasked with writing a review of a video game, I would spend as much time as I could playing it before the review was due. I would be clear about how much time I played it, and I would only comment on the aspects I was able to spend time exploring. From what I have seen it does not sound like the reviewer in question did any of this and therefore the review should be largely ignored.

    To answer your question: If that was all true, then no the review would not be legit and should be pulled.

  7. But when you help spread those lies, it puts this site into question. Lets say I was looking for opinions on DarkFall because I’m on the fence about the game, and I trust Suzina after following this site; now I pass on DF because of her post, which was nothing but a bunch of quoted lies pass on. Even people who have never played DarkFall have been able to point out the inaccuracies in that review, and any child could look at the screenshots included and figure out exactly how much effort was put into the piece.

    As for length of time needed to review a game, this is the wrong genre for snap judgments. How serious of a review can you do playing EVE for two hours? How credible can you be if you play two hours of AoC, never leaving Tortuga? Even WoW, are you trying to tell me WoW is the same game 1-79 as it is at 80, where the majority of the players time will be spent?

    You personally dismissing something after a short time is well within your right, but when you are being PAID to honestly review something, you can’t fill up two pages with lies and think no one is going to call you out on it, especially the guys who spent the last X years of their life working on it.

  8. I’m going to have to side with Syncaine here. As a paid review, it was complete garbage. That guy was obviously extremely biased going in. Then to fill it with huge inaccuracies?

    If he put in such little time to actually figure out how the UI works, how the heck can you trust anything he says about everything else?

  9. I agree with you and also point out nobody here has reviewed the game or claimed anything in that review was true. Linking to a review is not spreading lies. If anything, the more people that see the review, the more likely the truth will arise.

  10. To review an MMO properly, you need to review it by levels because there is no way you can tell me how the raiding is if you haven’t done it. You do a review on levels 1-10 or something on those lines. You must be clear about how much time you played and what things you tried. An again, choosing to play an MMO based on one review – shame on you.

  11. Syncaine, what is the point though? Like you said, you can’t even get into the game, so who gives a rat’s ass how it’s reviewed? If anything darkfall should get 0/10 because people can’t actually play it.

    Point of a review is for prospective purchasers to make a decision on it, but no point if you can’t actually get into the game anyways.

    yeah the inaccuracies would be bad if it discouraged people from buying it, but aventurrine set the bar so low with server capacity that this won’t even affect the game. It’s not like when the NA server comes online enough people will shun it because of this review.

  12. While this is akin to beating a dead horse, there is a very big difference between the initial playtime of a customer and a reviewer…. especially a reviewer at a huge “professional” site like EuroGamer. Like Ethic said, the amount of time should be built in the review. Did you play with guilds? Did you get to the point where it was like ‘ah, this is what the game is about?’ Etc.

    I do find this ‘net drama quite amusing though.

  13. It’s “amusing” in the same way Mass Effect was accused of being a porn simulator on Fox news by an author who never even played the game.

    I’m pretty shocked EG would accuse Aventurine of faking logs, in order to give Ed Zitrine some sort of cred for the whopping 9hrs he claims he played Darkfall for review on there site.

  14. Well to be honest, you can buy it, and it’s much easier now than it was in the first month. Still not “anytime you want” easy, but easier. My personal opinion is they are getting ready for the NA server release, at which point they will open up the shop and actually provide a public link to buy the game.

    I have a post I’ll put up when I get home, but for a small company with zero marketing, word-of-mouth is what they use to sell the game. Negative reviews based on play style are fine, WoW players won’t like DF, we know this. But lying and making it seem like DF is a buggy, unfinished mess is very different.

    Hell, the make/break for me with DarkFall is when Tobold reviewed the beta, and said it was stable and worked. He was negative about it because of the design, but I expected that. If Tobold had done what EG had done, I would not have purchased the game because at that time I was not that interested in it due to all the vaporware rumors. When you are aiming for 50k or whatever players, how much more harm does something like the EG review do compared to something like WoW, where every website on the net has an add for the trial?

  15. Just a minor point – some people are saying if they played an MMO for a few hours and found nothing of interest, they would not play it anymore.

    Didn’t any of you log into the EQ of old? It was dull and uneventful for the first few hours until you figured out everything (for yourself) and started to discover grouping…. and then a fair few of us players and you bloggers got hooked…

    You really have to give MMOs a fair amount of time, I think.

  16. I played Asheron’s Call and the truth is I was so amazed by the technology I didn’t even notice if I was having fun with the game play or not. I know I wouldn’t have kept playing a game like that today and I wouldn’t regret that choice. I’ve played a lot of MMOs since then and yes I can tell in about 2 hours if it is a game I want to keep playing or not. If I was reviewing the game, I would certainly play more but I am not a game reviewer – I am a game player. I play what *I* find fun.

    If you make an MMO that is targeting 500,000 players or more, you better make it fun right off the bat because the majority of players won’t tolerate anything less. This is the nature of MMOs now. If you expect your players to grind through 10 or 20 hours before it starts to get fun or even make sense, you are in trouble. That’s my opinion as a player.

    Darkfall is a game I don’t need reviews for. They told us what type of game it is and that was enough for me to know it won’t be any fun at all *for me*. So, is it fun? Depends on the player. I would not have fun so I can say it’s not fun even without playing it. That does not mean you wouldn’t have fun. Could I be wrong and perhaps I would have fun? Sure but they will have to convince me without making me pay them to find out.

  17. I don’t even get why there’s a discussion over whether it’s a proper review or not.

    Professional reviews are bullshit journalism. Most of us should know that. I did it myself for a few years and while it’s an expectation of consumers to get ‘fair and balanced’ reviews, let’s be really honest, there’s no such thing.

    They’re opinions, nothing more. Opinions are something worth being paid for, until they start hitting formula and you’re making mass opinions.

    I stand fully on the side of critics and criticism, paid for or free. But systematic reviewing / scoring is the lowest form of this kind of journalism.

  18. “They’re opinions, nothing more.”

    Give Rog a yummy cookie.

    That’s the main thing why I hated having to “score” the game at the end of my reviews. If it was up to me, I wouldn’t have put anything. Ever. Reviews are opinion and what the reader is looking for is in the meat of the text, not in an arbitrary metric crammed at the end that may leave things out. I still had to do it because it was “the format” they were looking for, so that’s that.

    I still challenge any reviewer to explain to me the difference between a 8.9 game and a 9.2 game.

  19. Tasos is an idiot. So he made that whole stink over it, as well as all the darkfall fans, just to let it stand? Guess what numbskull, that 2/10 is the only review for darkfall on metacritic, and that’s what they will see each time someone searches for “darkfall online review.”

    It may not hurt the game at all, but for heaven’s sake, if the review is factually wrong demand a re-review. You don’t make an issue out of it to the point of providing server logs to let it stand.

    Do it if only to please your fans. Man, what is it about aventurine and their backend that they are clueless about so much? Its not your job to care about the journalistic integrity or the lack of it at eurogamer, its your job to ensure darkfall gets at least a fair shake at a review and that you as a PR person provide the best possible face by being gracious, yet not conceding.

    Best thing to have done was to have been gracious, accept the re-review, and not rake zitron over the coals. That keeps you above the fray and shows professionalism, while providing a good example to your base and the gaming media.

    When your game is three months old and already your players are making a 24 page thread on your forums about how people and guilds are leaving and how your game needs serious long-term overhauls, you don’t have the luxury to pull things like this.

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