Comments on: Redefining Value

By: The Loot Council- Two Sides to Every Coin « WoWenomics

The Loot Council- Two Sides to Every Coin « WoWenomics — Sun, 31 May 2009 04:51:52 +0000

[...] yet contradictory, point of view. In related news, Kill Ten Rats posted an interesting piece on the value of your entertainment time [...]

By: Jerry

Jerry — Sat, 30 May 2009 20:26:05 +0000

Ironically, I just said something like this to a friend last night. (Context: We’re members of a medium-sized group of RL friends who all cancelled our AoC accounts in the last month.) “MMOs are great value for your money, if you actually enjoy the gameplay. You can get hours of entertainment for a relatively small fee. They’re very expensive in terms of time, however.”

By: Agent EVE

Agent EVE — Fri, 29 May 2009 13:52:04 +0000

I think that developers have to pick one camp and stay with it – are you making a good single-player game, or a good multiplayer game? EVE has done this, and the single-player aspect of it is horrendous. Still, it has consistently grown over its history…

but it’s still not as successful as the ultimate single player MMO, which is WoW. WoW is one big grindfest that can be played solo for the entirety of the game. What’s comical is that at the end of this game is a large multi-player end game. That’s funny since you didn’t have to group up to succeed before, but once you cap out the only thing left to do is join in on the grouping.

By: Dblade

Dblade — Fri, 29 May 2009 03:28:56 +0000

Then don’t play MMO’s, because it sounds like you all are completely burnt out on them. Go play something like Second Life, where it’s all “quality” with no grinding aspect or things you consider filler at all. Or go play online FPS, which get you into the game with none of the hassles MMO’s bring. Because there will always be filler of some type.

You should ask yourselves what exactly do you want out of MMO’s specifically. It sounds to me like you want them to be offline games.

By: Zubon

Zubon — Fri, 29 May 2009 00:40:21 +0000

Aaron, very nice.

My take-away has been that getting burned out and quitting is a good thing we should look forward to, rather than even wanting a game that will sustain us for 20 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, for years on end.

You get to the end of KOTOR or Planescape, and then you do something else.

By: Katherine

Katherine — Thu, 28 May 2009 23:29:47 +0000

Exactly. If I want mindless, well, there are lots of free games out there. If I have more time to kill, I mean spend effectively towards gaining entertainment, I will hop on Kongregate and see what the latest 3-star or greater rated game is, or bang my head against the (free) brick wall that is the latest GemCraft.

I only pay for quality these days, not timesinks with other people in.

By: Tesh

Tesh — Thu, 28 May 2009 19:43:30 +0000

Dblade, that’s why you really need to come up with a way to make players *be* the content.

I still get more for my money out of single player (time unlimited) games, or Guild Wars. I can’t help but think the whole “the game starts at 60+” mentality is killing the genre, precisely because of this notion of suffering for deferred fun.

By: Aaron White

Aaron White — Thu, 28 May 2009 17:22:57 +0000

I actually wrote a post about how subscription economics forces MMOs to deliver the LEAST amount of fun per unit of time, you might find it relevant/interesting:

http://aaronwhite.tumblr.com/post/52246395/can-successful-video-games-be-fun-part-1

By: Dblade

Dblade — Thu, 28 May 2009 16:39:33 +0000

The reason why grinds exist is because its next to impossible for developers to create content faster than the players ability to outstrip it. Not in any way and remain profitable, even if they doubled subscription fees.

It’s just not possible in a PvE game. Even in a PvP game it gets old really quickly, and in a way its worse because of balancing issues and dev nerfs.

Unless you want all MMOs to become PvP or FPS one where the core mechanic is all that drives people to play as opposed to story or experiences, I can’t see this being good.

By: Chris F

Chris F — Thu, 28 May 2009 14:07:46 +0000

Ah.. revelation! Sadly, I have been arguing about payment options for so long to be the equalizer for the lack of content. I have accepted the repetitive grind as the only locked down core mechanic for existing (and upcoming) MMO’s – so was trying to define my “value” of playing them through monetization options instead of fixing the core problem to being with.