Comments on: The PvP Protectionists http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/03/the-pvp-protectionists/ a group of adventurers on an epic quest Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:28:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Melf_Himself http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/03/the-pvp-protectionists/comment-page-1/#comment-33535 Melf_Himself Sun, 06 Sep 2009 02:06:06 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=4756#comment-33535 Two comments: A) PvP where you can lose some resource that impacts your future ability to compete is bad game design. Players should simply have a rating that serves as e-peen stroking to other players, not points that they would need to buy future gear. B) I wouldn't call Syncaine and his ilk "true PvP-ers". In general these griefing games where you steal other people's candy are for social misfits; you being a seasoned veteran of Random Arenas in Guild Wars would know a lot more about the teamwork/competition/strategy of a "true PvP" game. Two comments:

A) PvP where you can lose some resource that impacts your future ability to compete is bad game design. Players should simply have a rating that serves as e-peen stroking to other players, not points that they would need to buy future gear.

B) I wouldn’t call Syncaine and his ilk “true PvP-ers”. In general these griefing games where you steal other people’s candy are for social misfits; you being a seasoned veteran of Random Arenas in Guild Wars would know a lot more about the teamwork/competition/strategy of a “true PvP” game.

]]> By: Hess http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/03/the-pvp-protectionists/comment-page-1/#comment-33497 Hess Fri, 04 Sep 2009 04:22:55 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=4756#comment-33497 Oh how you've made me miss Eve PVP! Ice camping in zero-sec with a 3-4 man crew flying nothing but stupidly fast ships made of little more than paper-mache and a huge hauler a few jumps away for the really big scores. It wasn't glamorous (or fair but that's Eve for you) but damn was it fun, especially when the prey put up a skilled fight or we mistakenly jumped a well rigged drone-boat. Oh how you’ve made me miss Eve PVP! Ice camping in zero-sec with a 3-4 man crew flying nothing but stupidly fast ships made of little more than paper-mache and a huge hauler a few jumps away for the really big scores.

It wasn’t glamorous (or fair but that’s Eve for you) but damn was it fun, especially when the prey put up a skilled fight or we mistakenly jumped a well rigged drone-boat.

]]> By: Yoh http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/03/the-pvp-protectionists/comment-page-1/#comment-33494 Yoh Thu, 03 Sep 2009 22:18:53 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=4756#comment-33494 Good points as always Ravious. Never really looks at it as an "ante" systems (EVE, Darkfall), but now that I think about it, your absolutely right. EVE PvP has been among the most exciting PvP I have ever had in a game, and it's largely due to the inherit risk of it all. However in saying that, I do think there is some value in 'canned' PvP. ie, Guild Wars. Where you have nothing to lose, and it's good for a bit of mindless fun, while not having to worry about being 'ganked' at any point. But without anything to lose, you also don't have anything much to gain. Nothing tangible anyways. Still, it serves as a good introductory into PvP for those who are less then hardcore about PvP. (like myself) ~Yoh Good points as always Ravious.

Never really looks at it as an “ante” systems (EVE, Darkfall), but now that I think about it, your absolutely right.

EVE PvP has been among the most exciting PvP I have ever had in a game, and it’s largely due to the inherit risk of it all.

However in saying that, I do think there is some value in ‘canned’ PvP. ie, Guild Wars.
Where you have nothing to lose, and it’s good for a bit of mindless fun, while not having to worry about being ‘ganked’ at any point.
But without anything to lose, you also don’t have anything much to gain. Nothing tangible anyways.

Still, it serves as a good introductory into PvP for those who are less then hardcore about PvP. (like myself)

~Yoh

]]> By: Mordiceius http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/03/the-pvp-protectionists/comment-page-1/#comment-33491 Mordiceius Thu, 03 Sep 2009 20:40:12 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=4756#comment-33491 So are you trying to Aion is more hardcore than EvE and Darkfall? :-P So are you trying to Aion is more hardcore than EvE and Darkfall? :-P

]]> By: Longasc http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/03/the-pvp-protectionists/comment-page-1/#comment-33490 Longasc Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:00:36 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=4756#comment-33490 OK, obviously only in the scrub levels till rank 5. This is how far people got in the closed beta. According to some blogs you get far more punished for dying after that and people go quest mob farming. The silly stuff of killing 10 guys on the shards of the Abyss and turning the quest in... oh my. :( OK, obviously only in the scrub levels till rank 5. This is how far people got in the closed beta. According to some blogs you get far more punished for dying after that and people go quest mob farming. The silly stuff of killing 10 guys on the shards of the Abyss and turning the quest in… oh my. :(

]]> By: Longasc http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/03/the-pvp-protectionists/comment-page-1/#comment-33489 Longasc Thu, 03 Sep 2009 18:48:37 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=4756#comment-33489 I think you put in words what I was missing in Aion's PvP. In Ultima Online I did not wear full plate or a platemail breast all the time, and not always the best spear or sword. But I could loot good gear and lose good gear. This is the point. You cannot win much if you cannot lose much. And purely losing or gaining Abyss points does not really give me the kick. You can lose Abyss points in exchange for gear, but then you do not rise in rank. I just wonder for what I should rise in rank, if you get to the very top you can turn into a guardian deity and become something like a raid boss for a limited period of time or so, but well. P.S.: Getting killed in Aion does not cost you too much points, the system is set up in a way that rewards getting a few kills while it does not punish getting killed much more too hard. I think you put in words what I was missing in Aion’s PvP.

In Ultima Online I did not wear full plate or a platemail breast all the time, and not always the best spear or sword.

But I could loot good gear and lose good gear. This is the point. You cannot win much if you cannot lose much. And purely losing or gaining Abyss points does not really give me the kick. You can lose Abyss points in exchange for gear, but then you do not rise in rank.

I just wonder for what I should rise in rank, if you get to the very top you can turn into a guardian deity and become something like a raid boss for a limited period of time or so, but well.

P.S.: Getting killed in Aion does not cost you too much points, the system is set up in a way that rewards getting a few kills while it does not punish getting killed much more too hard.

]]> By: mbp http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/03/the-pvp-protectionists/comment-page-1/#comment-33487 mbp Thu, 03 Sep 2009 18:04:46 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=4756#comment-33487 Great post ravious. EVE and Darkfall are a bit like poker - the more you bet the better your chance of winning but the more you stand to lose. The Aion system sounds as if they want to start selling "Abyss point insurance" in a cash shop. Great post ravious. EVE and Darkfall are a bit like poker – the more you bet the better your chance of winning but the more you stand to lose.

The Aion system sounds as if they want to start selling “Abyss point insurance” in a cash shop.

]]> By: coppertopper http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/03/the-pvp-protectionists/comment-page-1/#comment-33486 coppertopper Thu, 03 Sep 2009 18:02:35 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=4756#comment-33486 Great article. But judging from my experience in WAR, lack of risk just means brainless zerg rushes, and I am tired of those. So some will turtle, or not RvR at all on there 'mains'. What is the difference between that and someone in EvE only playing on a cheap ship, or people PvPing naked in Darkfall so they don't lose their stuff? Great article. But judging from my experience in WAR, lack of risk just means brainless zerg rushes, and I am tired of those. So some will turtle, or not RvR at all on there ‘mains’. What is the difference between that and someone in EvE only playing on a cheap ship, or people PvPing naked in Darkfall so they don’t lose their stuff?

]]> By: Ralex http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/03/the-pvp-protectionists/comment-page-1/#comment-33485 Ralex Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:57:59 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=4756#comment-33485 I'm not sure how it will work out in practice with Aion's AP. How is just deciding to play an Alt (with fewer points) substantially different than someone in EvE going out in a cheap ship with an unimplanted jumpclone? Also, and since I have no experience in the game I may be completely full of crap on this, if you look at the number of points you lose on death vs. the number you'd have in the chart here: http://impetusium.blogspot.com/2009/08/abyss-compendium-access-points-ranks.html it seems like a pittance. A "Grade 1 Soldier" (not sure how easy that is to get to) has 150,000 points and loses 885 points on death. Is that really that big a deal? I’m not sure how it will work out in practice with Aion’s AP.

How is just deciding to play an Alt (with fewer points) substantially different than someone in EvE going out in a cheap ship with an unimplanted jumpclone?

Also, and since I have no experience in the game I may be completely full of crap on this, if you look at the number of points you lose on death vs. the number you’d have in the chart here:

http://impetusium.blogspot.com/2009/08/abyss-compendium-access-points-ranks.html

it seems like a pittance.

A “Grade 1 Soldier” (not sure how easy that is to get to) has 150,000 points and loses 885 points on death. Is that really that big a deal?

]]> By: Jason http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/03/the-pvp-protectionists/comment-page-1/#comment-33483 Jason Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:25:21 +0000 http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=4756#comment-33483 Really great observation. I also like eve's "jump clone" approach, because not only ships are valuable - your implants are just as valuable, if not more in many cases (not hard to find a set that costs > 1B isk). Sometimes you just want to go fool around in a throw-away ship, or practice a new technique, or go exploring where you don't know much about the area, and you don't want to put everything at risk. Other times you need to bring all you have to conquer some special challenge, and you're willing to put it at risk for the rewards - but you have the choice. Really great observation. I also like eve’s “jump clone” approach, because not only ships are valuable – your implants are just as valuable, if not more in many cases (not hard to find a set that costs > 1B isk). Sometimes you just want to go fool around in a throw-away ship, or practice a new technique, or go exploring where you don’t know much about the area, and you don’t want to put everything at risk. Other times you need to bring all you have to conquer some special challenge, and you’re willing to put it at risk for the rewards – but you have the choice.

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