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	<title>Comments on: Comment Spotlight</title>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/06/comment-spotlight/comment-page-1/#comment-35016</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5187#comment-35016</guid>
		<description>Indeed, but there&#039;s nothing wrong with that.  ;)

The notion that we enter a &quot;relationship&quot; with a game that *doesn&#039;t end* isn&#039;t healthy in my mind.  I play for as long as it&#039;s fun, then move on.  That&#039;s what I do with other games, too.  The addiction/commitment factor of these MMO things strikes me as a Bad Thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, but there&#8217;s nothing wrong with that.  ;)</p>
<p>The notion that we enter a &#8220;relationship&#8221; with a game that *doesn&#8217;t end* isn&#8217;t healthy in my mind.  I play for as long as it&#8217;s fun, then move on.  That&#8217;s what I do with other games, too.  The addiction/commitment factor of these MMO things strikes me as a Bad Thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan506</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/06/comment-spotlight/comment-page-1/#comment-35010</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan506</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5187#comment-35010</guid>
		<description>But the point is, this is exactly *why* you don&#039;t play long. MMOs, like any game, only offer so much in terms of actual gameplay - but people play them long after they&#039;ve done all that&#039;s offered exhaustively. People grow attached to what they&#039;ve achieved, and their characters as a symbol of it. If you don&#039;t, you quit after you&#039;ve taken all what a game has to offer - just as people do in single player games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But the point is, this is exactly *why* you don&#8217;t play long. MMOs, like any game, only offer so much in terms of actual gameplay &#8211; but people play them long after they&#8217;ve done all that&#8217;s offered exhaustively. People grow attached to what they&#8217;ve achieved, and their characters as a symbol of it. If you don&#8217;t, you quit after you&#8217;ve taken all what a game has to offer &#8211; just as people do in single player games.</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/06/comment-spotlight/comment-page-1/#comment-34997</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5187#comment-34997</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not lying, but I don&#039;t play *any* game for long.  I have no interest in dev-defined or socially acceptable Achievements.  I make my own goals in games, especially open ended ones.  MMOs are just big playgrounds for me, and the petty sociopathological concerns of the other players are utterly unimportant to how I play.  (Though they do have game design ramifications, and I can&#039;t help but look at these things as a designer.)

It means nothing to me that Leeeroy Jerkins has 15,000 Achievement points, or gets his jollies by making his avatar preen in his Tier 12 Shoulderpads of Airspace Violation.  If he&#039;s not actively contributing to my fun, I&#039;m likely to completely ignore him like any I&#039;d ignore any other ostentatious NPC.  I truly couldn&#039;t care less how he came by those things that he finds precious.  It&#039;s none of my business.  He&#039;s happy and not bothering me, carry on.  I&#039;ll do my thing, thanks.

Competition with other players does nothing for me.  I only compete against my own schedule and my own lack of skills.  If I&#039;ve made progress in my own mind, I&#039;m happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not lying, but I don&#8217;t play *any* game for long.  I have no interest in dev-defined or socially acceptable Achievements.  I make my own goals in games, especially open ended ones.  MMOs are just big playgrounds for me, and the petty sociopathological concerns of the other players are utterly unimportant to how I play.  (Though they do have game design ramifications, and I can&#8217;t help but look at these things as a designer.)</p>
<p>It means nothing to me that Leeeroy Jerkins has 15,000 Achievement points, or gets his jollies by making his avatar preen in his Tier 12 Shoulderpads of Airspace Violation.  If he&#8217;s not actively contributing to my fun, I&#8217;m likely to completely ignore him like any I&#8217;d ignore any other ostentatious NPC.  I truly couldn&#8217;t care less how he came by those things that he finds precious.  It&#8217;s none of my business.  He&#8217;s happy and not bothering me, carry on.  I&#8217;ll do my thing, thanks.</p>
<p>Competition with other players does nothing for me.  I only compete against my own schedule and my own lack of skills.  If I&#8217;ve made progress in my own mind, I&#8217;m happy.</p>
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		<title>By: yunk</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/06/comment-spotlight/comment-page-1/#comment-34996</link>
		<dc:creator>yunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5187#comment-34996</guid>
		<description>You can measure performance against others in any game, even single player. That&#039;s what happens on social networks, internet forums, when you talk to your friends, and why achievement points are used in xbox live. That&#039;s always been the case even when you had to have your friends over to play Atari. People do it all the time for everything, not just in MMOs. MMOs just made it easier to compare but that&#039;s changing fast.

In real life you see the same phenomenon, people with cheap bikes who are better riders complain about the people with expensive bikes who are worse riders. Why do they complain? I don&#039;t know, but they say the same things as the comment above. They are making assumptions and those assumptions say more about the people making the complaint than anything. 

The only time it really intereferes is if the person competes at a higher bracket than they should be based on ability. Like driving at a higher bracket than they should because their car qualifies for it but they aren&#039;t good enough drivers, or going on a difficult raid when they just bought the character and don&#039;t know how it works yet. But that is not the issue that the comment is raising.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can measure performance against others in any game, even single player. That&#8217;s what happens on social networks, internet forums, when you talk to your friends, and why achievement points are used in xbox live. That&#8217;s always been the case even when you had to have your friends over to play Atari. People do it all the time for everything, not just in MMOs. MMOs just made it easier to compare but that&#8217;s changing fast.</p>
<p>In real life you see the same phenomenon, people with cheap bikes who are better riders complain about the people with expensive bikes who are worse riders. Why do they complain? I don&#8217;t know, but they say the same things as the comment above. They are making assumptions and those assumptions say more about the people making the complaint than anything. </p>
<p>The only time it really intereferes is if the person competes at a higher bracket than they should be based on ability. Like driving at a higher bracket than they should because their car qualifies for it but they aren&#8217;t good enough drivers, or going on a difficult raid when they just bought the character and don&#8217;t know how it works yet. But that is not the issue that the comment is raising.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan506</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/06/comment-spotlight/comment-page-1/#comment-34993</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan506</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5187#comment-34993</guid>
		<description>But achievement in MMOs IS power, essentially. Competition in traditional western MMOs is based on achieving things - be it random kill xxxxx critters or gathering the raid sword of doom, whatever. We consider ourselves successful only when we measure our successes in comparison with our peers - that&#039;s simply human nature.

Essentially, advancement and achievement are only meaningful when measured against others&#039;. That&#039;s why even people who play MMOs primarily solo, or don&#039;t socialize more than required, still wouldn&#039;t play an MMO single player, if that were possible. 

Besides, what is power in mainstream MMOs but time? All things are achievable by essentially every person, should they have sufficient time to invest. RMT, at it&#039;s very best, is an attempt by people with less time to buy their way past people with plenty. 

Oddly, EVE is the only MMO I play. Not only is RMT perfectly legitimate, people can essentially buy huge and direct advantages of me. In this case, however, I have no problem with it. The advantages they can get are nothing that couldn&#039;t be achieved with sufficient investment of time - but PVP isn&#039;t (or shouldn&#039;t be) about time, it&#039;s about how well you play, and therefor I&#039;m essentially unaffected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But achievement in MMOs IS power, essentially. Competition in traditional western MMOs is based on achieving things &#8211; be it random kill xxxxx critters or gathering the raid sword of doom, whatever. We consider ourselves successful only when we measure our successes in comparison with our peers &#8211; that&#8217;s simply human nature.</p>
<p>Essentially, advancement and achievement are only meaningful when measured against others&#8217;. That&#8217;s why even people who play MMOs primarily solo, or don&#8217;t socialize more than required, still wouldn&#8217;t play an MMO single player, if that were possible. </p>
<p>Besides, what is power in mainstream MMOs but time? All things are achievable by essentially every person, should they have sufficient time to invest. RMT, at it&#8217;s very best, is an attempt by people with less time to buy their way past people with plenty. </p>
<p>Oddly, EVE is the only MMO I play. Not only is RMT perfectly legitimate, people can essentially buy huge and direct advantages of me. In this case, however, I have no problem with it. The advantages they can get are nothing that couldn&#8217;t be achieved with sufficient investment of time &#8211; but PVP isn&#8217;t (or shouldn&#8217;t be) about time, it&#8217;s about how well you play, and therefor I&#8217;m essentially unaffected.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/06/comment-spotlight/comment-page-1/#comment-34992</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5187#comment-34992</guid>
		<description>No western MMO sells power, as that would indeed be idiotic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No western MMO sells power, as that would indeed be idiotic.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan506</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/06/comment-spotlight/comment-page-1/#comment-34987</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan506</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5187#comment-34987</guid>
		<description>To be fair, I suspect the original comment is more rage over his perception and fears over what RMT may be in the future, rather than whether or not you can buy a pet in WoW. He seems to be worried that people will simply buy their way to the top, completely destroying his sense of achievement, and it&#039;ll be accepted and justified in the name of an equal playing field with a the straw man &#039;unemployed guy&#039;. 

You can mock him for feeling protective of his achievements, or for caring at all about virtual achievement in an online game - but I suspect there&#039;s a lot of hypocrisy coming out here. MMOs are all about achievement - from measuring and rewarding killing 10,000 rats to winning the loot roll after the 9th time doing the same raid. Fact is, achievement is what sets MMOs apart from other games.

Competition gives achievement meaning. Even indirectly, the ability to show your achievement to other players, is an example of this. If you play MMOs and do not care about achievements or showing them off, your lying to yourself or you won&#039;t be playing long. 

I had more to say, but I keep getting my thoughts turned around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, I suspect the original comment is more rage over his perception and fears over what RMT may be in the future, rather than whether or not you can buy a pet in WoW. He seems to be worried that people will simply buy their way to the top, completely destroying his sense of achievement, and it&#8217;ll be accepted and justified in the name of an equal playing field with a the straw man &#8216;unemployed guy&#8217;. </p>
<p>You can mock him for feeling protective of his achievements, or for caring at all about virtual achievement in an online game &#8211; but I suspect there&#8217;s a lot of hypocrisy coming out here. MMOs are all about achievement &#8211; from measuring and rewarding killing 10,000 rats to winning the loot roll after the 9th time doing the same raid. Fact is, achievement is what sets MMOs apart from other games.</p>
<p>Competition gives achievement meaning. Even indirectly, the ability to show your achievement to other players, is an example of this. If you play MMOs and do not care about achievements or showing them off, your lying to yourself or you won&#8217;t be playing long. </p>
<p>I had more to say, but I keep getting my thoughts turned around.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/06/comment-spotlight/comment-page-1/#comment-34979</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5187#comment-34979</guid>
		<description>I might have to go buy some of the new WoW pets, just to spite this guy. I haven&#039;t checked them out yet though. What is there? Are they really cute? Cuter than the penguin for converting? Cuter than the Emerald Whelpling that my old main bought before everything got so damn expensive?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might have to go buy some of the new WoW pets, just to spite this guy. I haven&#8217;t checked them out yet though. What is there? Are they really cute? Cuter than the penguin for converting? Cuter than the Emerald Whelpling that my old main bought before everything got so damn expensive?</p>
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		<title>By: Stabs</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/06/comment-spotlight/comment-page-1/#comment-34975</link>
		<dc:creator>Stabs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5187#comment-34975</guid>
		<description>Burnsssssssssssssssss...........


Never let me get on your bad side, Beau!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burnsssssssssssssssss&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>Never let me get on your bad side, Beau!</p>
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		<title>By: Beau</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/06/comment-spotlight/comment-page-1/#comment-34969</link>
		<dc:creator>Beau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5187#comment-34969</guid>
		<description>That quote is so sad. Here&#039;s a guy that is sure that it is pathetic to participate in RMT, when in fact it is more pathetic to be so narrow minded that you think that people that spend money on subs, expansions and double accounts are somehow not spending real money for virtual things. 
 
 Also, he obviously thinks that MMO&#039;s are nothing but a competition, highlighting his need for attention in virtual spaces.
 
 I might be reading it wrong, because I&#039;m half asleep, but that guy needs to quit playing games so much. What a chump, and how sad that he needs to &quot;show off&quot; to strangers on the internet to make his day. So, he thinks that &quot;achieving&quot; something in a virtual fantasy world is somehow more complex, deserving of praise, or heroic than spending 10 bucks on a cute pet? And he says THEY need a therapist? Nerds like him really make it hard to convince people that we&#039;re all not really angry white kids. 

 Beau</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That quote is so sad. Here&#8217;s a guy that is sure that it is pathetic to participate in RMT, when in fact it is more pathetic to be so narrow minded that you think that people that spend money on subs, expansions and double accounts are somehow not spending real money for virtual things. </p>
<p> Also, he obviously thinks that MMO&#8217;s are nothing but a competition, highlighting his need for attention in virtual spaces.</p>
<p> I might be reading it wrong, because I&#8217;m half asleep, but that guy needs to quit playing games so much. What a chump, and how sad that he needs to &#8220;show off&#8221; to strangers on the internet to make his day. So, he thinks that &#8220;achieving&#8221; something in a virtual fantasy world is somehow more complex, deserving of praise, or heroic than spending 10 bucks on a cute pet? And he says THEY need a therapist? Nerds like him really make it hard to convince people that we&#8217;re all not really angry white kids. </p>
<p> Beau</p>
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