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	<title>Comments on: WoW Crafting</title>
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		<title>By: yunk</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/16/wow-crafting/comment-page-1/#comment-35260</link>
		<dc:creator>yunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5260#comment-35260</guid>
		<description>There are even priests who do the blacksmithing / jewelcrafting combo for the same reason. It is the only synergystic combo for bonuses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are even priests who do the blacksmithing / jewelcrafting combo for the same reason. It is the only synergystic combo for bonuses.</p>
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		<title>By: Zubon</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/16/wow-crafting/comment-page-1/#comment-35254</link>
		<dc:creator>Zubon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5260#comment-35254</guid>
		<description>Contrarily, the fellow in the office next to me repeatedly recommended dropping Mining in favor of Jewelcrafting, if I wanted to have the best possible Paladin.  Blacksmiths get more gem slots, BoP it seems, and Jewelcrafters get the best gems to put in them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contrarily, the fellow in the office next to me repeatedly recommended dropping Mining in favor of Jewelcrafting, if I wanted to have the best possible Paladin.  Blacksmiths get more gem slots, BoP it seems, and Jewelcrafters get the best gems to put in them.</p>
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		<title>By: Platypus</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/16/wow-crafting/comment-page-1/#comment-35253</link>
		<dc:creator>Platypus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5260#comment-35253</guid>
		<description>Back when I played, Blacksmithing was the one profession that just didn&#039;t make any sense.  Four Blacksmiths could theoretically supply all blacksmithing required for the whole server.  (Or, more feasibly, for the whole guild).  If any of your friends is a Blacksmith, you don&#039;t need to be one yourself.

I guess most of the professions now have bind-on-pickup crafts, so none of them are entirely worthless.  But I still feel like gathering professions are the only ones that make much sense economically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back when I played, Blacksmithing was the one profession that just didn&#8217;t make any sense.  Four Blacksmiths could theoretically supply all blacksmithing required for the whole server.  (Or, more feasibly, for the whole guild).  If any of your friends is a Blacksmith, you don&#8217;t need to be one yourself.</p>
<p>I guess most of the professions now have bind-on-pickup crafts, so none of them are entirely worthless.  But I still feel like gathering professions are the only ones that make much sense economically.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy S.</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/16/wow-crafting/comment-page-1/#comment-35246</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 05:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5260#comment-35246</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s my take on crafting in WoW and other MMORPGs in general:
http://howtoloseyourlifetoanmmorpg.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/where-should-the-best-loot-come-from/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s my take on crafting in WoW and other MMORPGs in general:<br />
<a href="http://howtoloseyourlifetoanmmorpg.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/where-should-the-best-loot-come-from/" rel="nofollow">http://howtoloseyourlifetoanmmorpg.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/where-should-the-best-loot-come-from/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Yeebo</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/16/wow-crafting/comment-page-1/#comment-35243</link>
		<dc:creator>Yeebo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5260#comment-35243</guid>
		<description>I like the crafting in LoTRO for sveral reasons:

1. The stuff you can make is good.  Better than anything that&#039;s likely to drop from a quest unless you run a lot of group only content.

2. The recipes are well organized.  If you want to level from 5 to 60 using only one handed axes, new crafted ones come along often enough that you need never use any other weapon.  Entire new sets of armor come along fairly frequently.

3. If you are anal, you can crit items and end up with superior products.  Not just items that require rare ingredients, any recipe.  

It&#039;s not perfect.  There are some level ranges where a melee character will have a tough time coming up with decent jewelry upgrades.  Scholar can be a foaming bitch to level.  Farming is  about the most insanely boring crafting profession I&#039;ve encountered in any game. I also think the recent revamp of crafted armor actually hurt the crafting a lot more than it helped, by making it more complex than it really needed to be and by raising the level requirements on a lot of the better items.  And finally, the guild recipes are a bit too powerful for the relative ease with which you can obtain them.  

All those caveats in place, I&#039;d say LoTRO has one of my favorite overall crafting systems among MMOs.  Of the games I&#039;ve seriously played, I&#039;d say only EQ II had a better system to may tastes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the crafting in LoTRO for sveral reasons:</p>
<p>1. The stuff you can make is good.  Better than anything that&#8217;s likely to drop from a quest unless you run a lot of group only content.</p>
<p>2. The recipes are well organized.  If you want to level from 5 to 60 using only one handed axes, new crafted ones come along often enough that you need never use any other weapon.  Entire new sets of armor come along fairly frequently.</p>
<p>3. If you are anal, you can crit items and end up with superior products.  Not just items that require rare ingredients, any recipe.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not perfect.  There are some level ranges where a melee character will have a tough time coming up with decent jewelry upgrades.  Scholar can be a foaming bitch to level.  Farming is  about the most insanely boring crafting profession I&#8217;ve encountered in any game. I also think the recent revamp of crafted armor actually hurt the crafting a lot more than it helped, by making it more complex than it really needed to be and by raising the level requirements on a lot of the better items.  And finally, the guild recipes are a bit too powerful for the relative ease with which you can obtain them.  </p>
<p>All those caveats in place, I&#8217;d say LoTRO has one of my favorite overall crafting systems among MMOs.  Of the games I&#8217;ve seriously played, I&#8217;d say only EQ II had a better system to may tastes.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian 'Psychochild' Green</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/16/wow-crafting/comment-page-1/#comment-35240</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian 'Psychochild' Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 00:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5260#comment-35240</guid>
		<description>Tailoring (and its obnoxious cousin metalworking) are tough in LotRO for a few reasons.  One main issue is that combat is required to get your materials, whereas you can collect most other materials without doing combat.  I mentioned before that I took my level ~25 Loremaster to Misty Mountains to collect wood for my woodworker.  It was exciting to dodge between the purple con enemies that would wipe the floor with me in a few swings.  But, I was able to get the Black Ash I needed to work up Woodworking in the master tier.

Compare this with Tailoring, where I would have had to kill those beasts to get the leather I needed.  Only beasts drop leather, too.  This is one of the things I hated so much about leatherworking in WoW, that you had to go kill things to gather your materials.

Tailoring also has more recipes than other professions (light and medium armor, 6 pieces, 2-3 racial variations per tier), requires multiple components in addition to vendor-bought components, and seems to have very little reasoning for the stats a given piece of armor gives (although that&#039;s not unique to Tailoring).  In all, it can be really tedious to try to work up Tailoring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tailoring (and its obnoxious cousin metalworking) are tough in LotRO for a few reasons.  One main issue is that combat is required to get your materials, whereas you can collect most other materials without doing combat.  I mentioned before that I took my level ~25 Loremaster to Misty Mountains to collect wood for my woodworker.  It was exciting to dodge between the purple con enemies that would wipe the floor with me in a few swings.  But, I was able to get the Black Ash I needed to work up Woodworking in the master tier.</p>
<p>Compare this with Tailoring, where I would have had to kill those beasts to get the leather I needed.  Only beasts drop leather, too.  This is one of the things I hated so much about leatherworking in WoW, that you had to go kill things to gather your materials.</p>
<p>Tailoring also has more recipes than other professions (light and medium armor, 6 pieces, 2-3 racial variations per tier), requires multiple components in addition to vendor-bought components, and seems to have very little reasoning for the stats a given piece of armor gives (although that&#8217;s not unique to Tailoring).  In all, it can be really tedious to try to work up Tailoring.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian 'Psychochild' Green</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/16/wow-crafting/comment-page-/#comment-35238</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian 'Psychochild' Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5260#comment-35238</guid>
		<description>Bhagpuss wrote:
&lt;i&gt;I would take WoW’s click-to-make system into EQ2 in a heartbeat. Making the player do *something* throughout the crafting process does not equate to “entertaining the player”.&lt;/i&gt;

What&#039;s interesting is that players were clamoring for a more interactive crafting system when EQ2 came out.  The cry was that crafting should be as exciting as combat is.  The EQ2 devs listened and provided a crafting system that is about as engaging as a simple combat is.

The big problem is that this ignored the reality of what players do during crafting.  They&#039;ll often be in guild chat, or be doing crafting as a low-impact way to pass the time.  Making crafting much more interactive took away from these social elements.  It also required player attention, so it wasn&#039;t just something you could do to wind down.

I use this as an example of players not really knowing what they want.  Feedback is useful, but if players dictate design then you get flawed (though still interesting and, in some ways, fun) systems like EQ2&#039;s crafting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bhagpuss wrote:<br />
<i>I would take WoW’s click-to-make system into EQ2 in a heartbeat. Making the player do *something* throughout the crafting process does not equate to “entertaining the player”.</i></p>
<p>What&#8217;s interesting is that players were clamoring for a more interactive crafting system when EQ2 came out.  The cry was that crafting should be as exciting as combat is.  The EQ2 devs listened and provided a crafting system that is about as engaging as a simple combat is.</p>
<p>The big problem is that this ignored the reality of what players do during crafting.  They&#8217;ll often be in guild chat, or be doing crafting as a low-impact way to pass the time.  Making crafting much more interactive took away from these social elements.  It also required player attention, so it wasn&#8217;t just something you could do to wind down.</p>
<p>I use this as an example of players not really knowing what they want.  Feedback is useful, but if players dictate design then you get flawed (though still interesting and, in some ways, fun) systems like EQ2&#8242;s crafting.</p>
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		<title>By: Zubon</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/16/wow-crafting/comment-page-1/#comment-35230</link>
		<dc:creator>Zubon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5260#comment-35230</guid>
		<description>Crafting in Middle-earth is not entirely dissimilar to WoW, although a bit more fleshed out.  Oddly, improving it has involved cutting down some of the complexity, largely because that complexity made it a disgusting inventory management problem.

Each of the crafts seems to have its bottleneck tier, and I don&#039;t know if that is caused by leveling speeds, relative scarcity, what you fight at each level, etc.  (I mean for the final mastery: just getting through a tier is usually easy.)  Tailoring probably has it the easiest, because there are always things you need for deeds that drop hides.  Hunt wargs of the appropriate level until you get the deed, and you will probably be about there.  For jewelers, it is tier 2 (silver).  For making weapons and armor, tier 4.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crafting in Middle-earth is not entirely dissimilar to WoW, although a bit more fleshed out.  Oddly, improving it has involved cutting down some of the complexity, largely because that complexity made it a disgusting inventory management problem.</p>
<p>Each of the crafts seems to have its bottleneck tier, and I don&#8217;t know if that is caused by leveling speeds, relative scarcity, what you fight at each level, etc.  (I mean for the final mastery: just getting through a tier is usually easy.)  Tailoring probably has it the easiest, because there are always things you need for deeds that drop hides.  Hunt wargs of the appropriate level until you get the deed, and you will probably be about there.  For jewelers, it is tier 2 (silver).  For making weapons and armor, tier 4.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/16/wow-crafting/comment-page-1/#comment-35227</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5260#comment-35227</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never been a crafter, always largely a gatherer. In WoW this translated to Mining and Herbalism/Skinning depending on my mood and what my spousal unit needed for her characters. I mostly played as her supplier/investor.

I can&#039;t get into crafting seriously because of the voice in my head always telling me that I&#039;m wasting my time/effort/energy in making items that will become obsolete either by easily finding something similar or better, or simply by item inflation when (x) expansion hits. Crafting always felt to me like the Dilbertesque sweet smell of unnecessary work.

I did however have a stint as a Jeweller in my LOTRO main back when I was playing. Can&#039;t say I enjoyed it 100% (not even 75% probably) but I stuck with it for some reason. That reason most likely being that I could be more or less self-sufficient as a miner/jeweler, didn&#039;t have to put my progress much in the hands of other, probably despicable humans, and it didn&#039;t seem as cumbersome (materials-wise) as other professions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never been a crafter, always largely a gatherer. In WoW this translated to Mining and Herbalism/Skinning depending on my mood and what my spousal unit needed for her characters. I mostly played as her supplier/investor.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t get into crafting seriously because of the voice in my head always telling me that I&#8217;m wasting my time/effort/energy in making items that will become obsolete either by easily finding something similar or better, or simply by item inflation when (x) expansion hits. Crafting always felt to me like the Dilbertesque sweet smell of unnecessary work.</p>
<p>I did however have a stint as a Jeweller in my LOTRO main back when I was playing. Can&#8217;t say I enjoyed it 100% (not even 75% probably) but I stuck with it for some reason. That reason most likely being that I could be more or less self-sufficient as a miner/jeweler, didn&#8217;t have to put my progress much in the hands of other, probably despicable humans, and it didn&#8217;t seem as cumbersome (materials-wise) as other professions.</p>
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		<title>By: Bronte</title>
		<link>http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/16/wow-crafting/comment-page-1/#comment-35223</link>
		<dc:creator>Bronte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.killtenrats.com/?p=5260#comment-35223</guid>
		<description>One game that does a great job of the gathering mini-game (or maybe my ancestors were gatherers and it is genetically imprinted in my DNA), is Runes of Magic. It was damn near compulsive. There were so many nodes of everything, and there was no restrictions a to how many or what professions you could dabble into. And instead of splitting &#039;Mining&#039; and &#039;Blacksmithing&#039;, you could raise skill with either activity.

But when it came to crafting... it was the same old story. Hit create, and watch a bar fill. For hours. And hours. And hours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One game that does a great job of the gathering mini-game (or maybe my ancestors were gatherers and it is genetically imprinted in my DNA), is Runes of Magic. It was damn near compulsive. There were so many nodes of everything, and there was no restrictions a to how many or what professions you could dabble into. And instead of splitting &#8216;Mining&#8217; and &#8216;Blacksmithing&#8217;, you could raise skill with either activity.</p>
<p>But when it came to crafting&#8230; it was the same old story. Hit create, and watch a bar fill. For hours. And hours. And hours.</p>
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