[GW2] No Noobs

Last weekend, I heard a group forming for a dungeon speed run. “No newbs!” Ah, less than a month in and we are there already.

Playing during the head start, the evening of August 27, I heard people in the map channel discussing “the incoming horde of noob players” at midnight. Look, I have expressed annoyance with explaining things to first-timers, but at the point where you are a morula scorning a zygote, and no one is even a blastocyst yet, you have gone too far.

: Zubon

26 thoughts on “[GW2] No Noobs”

  1. That’s disheartening. But ArenaNet have pretty much made it clear the 5-man dungeons are a noob-unfriendly zone and should only be run by experienced players.

    And let’s be honest – you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to play GW2 well. This game is no where near an Eve Online spreadsheet difficulty level. ;)

    1. > only be run by experienced players.

      Well, no, to be fair, they’ve made it clear that anyone who’s not an experienced player is going to have a rough time until they become experienced.

      There’s nothing to be said in defense of a person who conceives of themselves as an expert – less than a month into a game with a realistic lifespan of a half-dozen years or more – who ALSO judges their expertise as being too rarefied to waste on common folk.

      It doesn’t speak well to their patience.

      Also, if you’ve been able to pour that much time into the game in the first month but you don’t have enough friends to 5-man a dungeon, it doesn’t speak well to your interpersonal skills.

      It’s like showing up, alone, to a Weight Watchers’ sponsored doubles tennis event wearing a “no fat chicks” t-shirt.

      1. “It’s like showing up, alone, to a Weight Watchers’ sponsored doubles tennis event wearing a “no fat chicks” t-shirt.”

        Not really. They are looking to do a speed run, which is more Grand Slam than Weight Watchers. A fat chick showing up at the US Open looking for some casual doubles fun would be treated the same as someone joining a speed run group and not knowing the instance.

        Speed runs, gear limits, and “need X class/spec” requirements are not a player decision, but something the devs (intentionally or not) designed.

        1. Speed runs, gear limits and “need X class/spec” CAN be something the devs designed… if they are in fact necessary.

          In other cases, they really aren’t needed and are only imposed by players who a) want an over-powered group to carry their own inadequacies, b) are required because the player is simply too stupid to try any other approach (some people think the correct way to fasten a screw is to get an overpowered hammer) or c) the player is creating a completely artificial requirement in order to pump their own sorry little ego, by convincing himself that only the best can run with him.

  2. The people who say no newbs are usually newbs themselves, and let’s face it, we all are…and with the recent revamp of dungeons we’re newbs all over again. And those people, as I’ve said before and elsewhere, came in with that attitude. Such players were the ones putting together 5 mans and planning strategy well before the first BWE was even announced. They are also the same ones to rage every time something is rebalanced and all their theorycrafting flies out the window.

    Lots of whining about the inability to do speed clears now. I totally saw it coming. If people are spamming for speed clears of a couple dungeons to the exclusion of all others, something’s not right.

  3. Well noobs or not, they are farmers and they are treating the game as a problem to solve, how to crack the code and getting most gold in shortets amount of time.

    luckely ArenaNet does alot to make the gab, between this behavior and just playing the full game, as small as possible.

    I think there is another weakness that this points at. That since you rarely forms groups in open world PvE, there really is no culture about how to behave in a group or just advertise a LFG.

  4. Well why you are surprised about this? When you need 60+ runs for a set of armor, when you don’t even have gold for repairs and travel, when you need 40k+ karma for a single piece of gear it is very normal that people will try to find efficient ways to grind. I was told that this game will be not like others..it will not have any grinds, but it ended up to have the most grind.

    I am in no way expert at gaming. I am a casual player and I am not planning to make 55+ explorable dungeons in any way. I will probably complete the story mode once. But I am disappointed from the amount of grind the game have and I am not surprised that promote elitism behaviour. Not because I am bad player. I play MMOs since vanilla wow, and have played every MMO since then… but I grew up and got sick of grinding and burned out of the regular MMOs. Thats why I got GW2. I have been promised something different.

    I have been promised to play for the aesthetics and I really like too. I always cared about aesthetics. But farming millions of karma and running 60+ of each dungeons is not what I was expecting from a game that aimed to casuals and wanted to get rid the grind.

    So again, I don’t blame people looking for efficient ways to grind (that means the want to avoid bad players also). I don’t blame them if they don’t explore the map and do events in low level areas because they get 1/3 of karma than they get in Orr when they need to make millions…I also don’t blame them for camping specific events to grind instead of running around to find new ones..

    What Anet expecting? I am sure they want us to be sort on gold, to buy gems to be able to travel and repair, but not from me. I rather pay a subscription to another game that will not require me to buy things that considered essentials.

    1. C’mon, people, think outside of the box a little.

      1) Repair canisters. They fix up your armor completely. Yes, they are bought with gems – but gems can be gotten with game money. A canister costs 70 gems, 60 if you buy it in batches of 5. Open the Gem Exchange panel, and just check if the price for 70 gems is greater or smaller than your repair bill.

      2) Everybody’s complaining that you can’t make any money on crafting because the market is too flooded with crafted goods being sold at vendor price. Search for fine/masterwork crafted armor, see if buying a set of it and then just not repairing it after the dungeon costs more or less than your repair bill. Yes, depending on stats you may be a bit weaker, but you save money.

    2. Amen, John. Amen.

      And as far as crafting goes, well, this game is not the game for it, AT ALL. It’s just a money sink.

      I play EQ2 to craft, with a side of adventuring. I think that game and Vanguard are the only ones where you can do that and not be scraping by. I scrape by in real life, there is no way I’m going to pay real life money to do it in a game.

      1. I’m crafting on all my characters and I’m not scraping by. The “problem” is that everyone is crafting due to accessibility and experience gains so mats are higher in demand, and finished products are lower in demand especially so early in the game’s life. Crafting may be less rewarding financially, but it’s more rewarding in other ways. There’s a trade-off.

    3. Other games require grinding dungeons just to get adequate stats to experience all the content. You can get max stats in this game without running a single dungeon. They promised a similar system to the original, and that’s what we got: max stats are readily accessible, and certain looks may require more time and effort – just as they did in the original.

      Also, most people I know are buying gems with gold rather than gold with gems. They aren’t trying to force us to use the shop in this game any more than they did in the original. If everybody could get everything within the first month, nothing would have any meaning or value.

      I haven’t spent a cent in the store. I spent maybe a day of grind in Orr simply because I preferred the look of a particular karma set (top/bottoms.) I bought my other exotics off the TP with the gold I acquired through normal play.

      That, and I wasn’t excluded from any content before I had my exotics. There aren’t 25 man raids that necessitate gearing up. That’s what makes this game different. We can participate in open-world PvE or WvW raids at any time, and PvP is as accessible as it was in the original.

    1. Precisely! I generally put a lot of effort into learning how to play games well, so I avoid being a noob myself… but conversely I have no interest whatsoever in hanging out with the kinds of people who avoid noobs. Oddly, I’d usually far rather run with noobs than elitists.

      Noobs only need to learn how to play the game. Elitists frequently need to learn to interact with others, and generally that’s far harder to teach; plus they generally don’t want to learn.

  5. Well, they were doing speed runs of around 15mins (has been nerfed now) in the Citadel of Flames, so of course they wouldn’t want newbies in it, because having to explain the whole procedure would take away the speed from a speed run.

    The underlying problem is the amount of rewards you need for armor and weapons of a dungeon, which at this time is pure grind. As much as I normally hate the “no newbs”-attitude, I cannot condemn them with how things are right now.

    1. As Julian says below, true. If I need 15 minutes to explain a 15-minute procedure, and you’ll probably drop after the first run, you’re just not on the same playing field.

  6. Elitists will be elitists no matter the game. Their prevalence for snobbery, though, is only getting quicker and quicker the more of an accepted practice it is becoming.

    Sadly, it really is showing more the trend in where gaming is going than being the exception.

  7. Could probably suggest a change of server, because I don’t have to listen to that kind of nonsense on a moderately populated european server, most players use proper words and sentences in map chat. I’m expecting it to quieten down after the 25th because GW2 is ‘so grindy and repetitive’.

  8. I tend to generally despise elitism in games (although I think it’s natural for it to emerge), but I have no problem with this, as stated. “Speed Run”. As in, “we want to do this fast, we don’t wanna explain it, we need someone who already knows what they’re doing.”

    Zero problems.

    My issues come up when it inevitably bleeds down to lesser strata of challenges and soon enough a vast majority of groups LFM come with a list of requirements attached which in most cases is not necessary.

    Bhagpuss is absolutely right, this was ridiculous in TSW. About 80% of the LFM cries, going by eye-o-meter, required this and that and that other thing when there was zero need.

    This particular issue is not so much the elitist. They are welcome to set whatever challenges they wish to themselves. The problem is the second tier that comes behind the bleeding edge of playes, who try to emulate this behavior and create artificial requirements when they are not needed.

    1. If you’ve written the walkthrough on the wiki or posted a video of your boss strats, a “lol noob, rtfm” is forgivable – rude, perhaps, but if you *W* tfm telling someone to go *R* it is well within your rights.

      However, from what I’ve seen, the wiki is still pretty sparse on details for a lot of the dungeons, so I’m less tolerant of the impatience and intolerance.

      Also: where are these people’s friends and guildmates? I don’t even know if there’s a limit on your friends list, and while I know there’s a limit to guild membership it’s pretty high. You can join 4 guilds with up to 500 people in each guild. You can’t find 4 people who meet your standards in a pool of 2000+? I don’t think “the noobs” are the issue.

      The worst guild experiences I’ve had in MMOs come from situations where the guild leadership, or some other clique inside the guild, isolates itself and spends all their time running instances to gear up themselves and each other without taking any time to include or teach anyone else in the guild.

      Sometimes that’s deliberate elitism, sometimes it’s the accidental outcome of laziness and habit, but there’s no quicker way to kill a guild than to have the best members spend all their time in PUGs or “elite” groups without passing that knowledge on.

  9. Perhaps they mean ‘noobs’ in the permanent, irrevocable, Biblical sense? In my game, I know noobs who’ve been playing longer than I have.

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