[GW2] Parenting and the Heart of Thorns Pre-Purchase

My eldest daughter sits across from my youngest. They both have ice cream. I’d rather be sitting at the dinner table I crafted and chatting about the day with my wife than bringing out the laser level to make sure each bowl of ice cream is volumetrically equivalent.

The eldest sits with a scowl on her face because the youngest had the highest ice cream peak, or perhaps a spoonful more, or just better presentation of the dessert. Her enjoyment of her own ice cream is ruined. All she cares about is that her younger sister may have more.

Pretend you are the parent. What would you do?

This is pretty much the exact same situation a lot of players are facing since the Guild Wars 2 Heart of Thorns expansion went on pre-order last night after Colin’s E3 presentation.

The expansion is $50. (This is where you should stop and consider buying it or not.)

For new players they only have to buy the expansion, and they get the core game free. This is the same three-year old, updated core game that many of us have had for… three years.

I am seeing all the players who wanted to throw money at ArenaNet for an expansion sitting there with a scowl on their face because the younger players get an extra dollop of “value”. They feel entitled to that “value” in the form of another [mule] account or a cheaper expansion price.

To be fair, I think ArenaNet did blunder. This could be seen a mile away. I don’t know how much these “eldest daughters” are hurting the bottom line, but the perceived good will of ArenaNet is definitely lowering.

My personal opinion of value is that the base expansion should have included a character slot. Perhaps this set a precedent ArenaNet didn’t want since I feel getting another class in the second expansion is unlikely. I am pretty sure the “buy the expansion, get the base game” is a precedent that ArenaNet does want.

It is all about perception.

The Heart of Thorns sale page does not help. The cheapest option at $50 gives “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion (includes Guild Wars 2 core game)”. That’s it. No bullet points for what’s in the expansion. No goodies. They wanted that cheapest option to look… basic.

Upgrade to the $75 deluxe edition and the goodies start rolling in with a character slot, a glider skin, a mini, etc. Bullet points galore! Yes, ArenaNet really wanted to make that contrast stark to get players to upgrade, but in doing so they lost the excitement of merely buying the basic pack.

I feel for the “eldest daughters” that for that most basic option the only extra bullet point was for a new player. They got something extra that returning players wouldn’t get. Returning players wouldn’t get anything extra in that list (the title a player gets for pre-purchasing and beta access is presented apart from the bullet points).

Even with all the exciting things coming in Heart of Thorns, like a guild hall with a battle arena, that Spartan option is not exciting to look at. ArenaNet took a risk in making it that way. They wanted to push for the $75 option, and I feel that is why there is such a backlash. At the core, I feel if the “eldest daughters” really thought things through, they would view the new players getting the base game as a good thing. However, their own excitement has drained. Like taking the jam out of someone’s donut, Tommy.

–Ravious

49 thoughts on “[GW2] Parenting and the Heart of Thorns Pre-Purchase”

  1. Best solution to the ice cream and other food related issues amongst siblings: let the older one dish it up and the younger one gets to choose which one gets which bowl.

    Solved, works every time. The mind games in just that small change is amazing to watch in your kids.

    1. Oh sure, we do that quite a bit. Especially when splitting a soda or something easy. The ratio of soda molecules per cup becomes nearly flawless then. Still there are times when we serve dessert, etc., and one of them (usually the oldest unfortunately) gets salty.

  2. The way I see it, the new people only buying the expansion+core now are the ones missing out because they don’t get the 3 years of fun playing GW2 that I already have.

    I mean, 3 years ago I bought GW2 and had hours and hours of fun playing it. ArenaNet have paid off that mortgage.

  3. I do think the basic pack should come with a character slot but other than that I don’t see what the fuss is about. And a character slot costs WAY less than the extra $25 they are asking so I’ll just buy one with gold.

    My main issue is what you hint at: just what is in this xpack anyway? I have no faith now that it is anywhere close to finished or will have anything I want in it. I may just wait until it launches and buy it from Amazon.

    1. Good point. A reiteration or re-examination of announced features would’ve been great.A better understanding of content would’ve been greater.

  4. How is getting the core game with the expansion any different from what EQ2 had been doing? Buy the expansion, get everything up to there included. I think it would be worse making a new user buy multiple products to “catch up”.

    Plus, it isn’t like we did not get anything for our purchase 3 years ago. We have 3 years of gameplay that a new user won’t experience. And for a game that went through so many changes (story and otherwise) in that time, that’s quite a bit of value to me.

    Is the presentation on the sale page a bit off? Maybe. But I think anyone complaining that a new user gets “more” for the same price is missing the mark. Maybe if you just bought the core game in the past month or so I can see some justified annoyance. If you have been playing for years, though, and are considering the expansion, I have to imagine you had fun with the game in that time. And that is worth something.

  5. I don’t care what others get or don’t get. I don’t care if ArenaNet want more people to buy the $75 version or whatever else they have on their minds. I do care that they expect me to pay $60 to be able to play all the content. We don’t even know what that content in its entirety is yet but, I don’t think there’s anyone who believes it would be even half of what the core game offered at launch.

    Blizzard asked me to pay $50 for a bare bones expansion and I uninstalled the game after 9+ years. I don’t use Apple products or game consoles because they don’t offer enough value for the money. I’ve spent more than double the full price of the core game on gems even though I had enough gold from farming and flipping to buy anything the gem store had to offer. I never crafted a legendary weapon or any ascended gear because I value multiple toys, minis, outfits, skins etc. more than spending 2k gold for a single legendary skin. And, ArenaNet now, instead of pricing the expansion at $40 and a free character slot for pre-purchasing, ask me to pay $60 for it. Not enough value for the money in my mind.

    And, if that wasn’t enough they compound their bad business decisions with PR failures like mandatory ascended gear and nerfing the worst class in the game while buffing the rest. As a consumer, a gamer and a fan of the game I’m disappointed.

    1. Necros aren’t the only class with cause to be upset over the latest trait announcements. I main a pistol thief, which was never an optimal build but required the Ricochet trait to be viable/fun at all. In the patch note previews, it’s simply missing, with no explanation or acknowledgement. Speculation on the thread was that it was being rolled into the yet-to-be-announced thief specialization, which they couldn’t say anything about just yet.

      But then the expansion pricing announcement hit. That means that the best-case scenario is that the cornerstone of the build I liked is now behind a $50 paywall, and completely missing until the unknown time when that paywall is released.

  6. I think the player complaining for Game + expansion is that they feel that 50$/€ is the correct price for game + Expansion. But it is not the correct price for expansion only.

    As everyone said, I was a day 1 buyer, but this price set me off. Why I would pay the same price of the main game for 1/10 of the content ? I had expected the price to be at 20-30$/€. ANd no fluff for 50€ ? ANd the 75€ game only add 1 slot ? ANd cosmetic thing I do not know what it look like ?

  7. An interesting option would have been “existing owners of GW2 get the Deluxe addition for no additional charge”.

    In short a $25 reward for being a loyal customer.

    Or….

    Create a “new player” bundle separate from the “Basic” package for existing players.

    It does seem like a marketing blunder. While I agree that you cannot make everyone happy, some approaches make more people happy than others.

    1. Yeah I really think a $50 “expansion + base game” option and a separate $50 “expansion + some fluff” option would have neutralized a lot of the ill-feeling, for very little effort or expense on ArenaNet’s part. Oh well. I don’t work in marketing, I just sit next to a team of very clever people who do. :-)

  8. I don’t really play GW2, though I purchased the game when it was released I have no intention of purchasing the expansion. It is not a bad game, simply not MY game. That said, I’m not really sure that I agree with your analogy.

    To extend your analogy more correctly might be to say that your daughters have two bowls of ice cream that appear identical, but that your older daughter paid for her first scoop of ice cream and then paid again for the second scoop while your younger daughter paid only for the second scoop and got the first for free. The practical advantage of previous enjoyment is negligible and the fun that she has had previously with her ice cream is unquantifiable economically (there is no objective return on investment monetarily.) In any system in which there is a cap that effectively allows newcomers to catch up to older players, the advantage of your previous experience is subjective.

    Of course all of that is a purely monetary standpoint, and isn’t really meant to refute the spirit of your post, rather I would like to add to it. What I think that many players don’t grasp is that by providing new players who purchase the expansion with the core game, they are simply subsidizing their own enjoyment of the game. By essentially placing a portion of the cost of providing the core game to new users onto users who need only the expansion content, those veteran players are also provided with a greater opportunity for an expanded playerbase, and I don’t think that any MMO player could sensibly argue that their game could not benefit from gaining more new players. At least in my experience, an influx of new players means more people to enjoy the content with, and greater access to that content.

    Essentially, your older daughter should be happy to pay more for her ice cream in the long run because it means she doesn’t have to sit in the corner eating it alone.

    1. Actually your analogy refinement isn’t accurate because only the youngest daughter would have two bowls of ice cream. The eldest would’ve gotten her first bowl back when it was fresh, having earned it back then from chores, etc. In fact, one could argue that the eldest’s first bowl of ice cream was a very filling experience.

      Now the youngest daughter’s “first bowl” of ice cream is melted (subjectively).

      Yes, the youngest can catch up in calories for less chores per bowl, but that “first bowl” is never going to be as good as the eldest daughter’s first, fresh bowl.

      Anyway, not trying to argue. I like the spirit of your comment, and I think we’re on the same page. :)

      1. I prefer a camera and new lens analogy. Your eldest daughter bought a camera which came with a lens (pretty common in DSLR world) and used it for three years. Now the camera company is releasing a new lens and offering the original camera body and prime lens for free with the purchase of the new lens… Your youngest gets the original camera and new lens for the price your eldest just gets the new lens.

        Pretty shoddy marketing. It would be even worse if you had a third daughter who bought the camera body at a reduced price a few weeks prior to the release of the new lens because she understood that a new lens would require a camera body to work.

        I’m fine with the base game being part of the expac for NEW players (network externality after all), but it would be a good idea on ANET’s part to offer something to veteran players for the same $50.00 price tag. I honestly think a character slot for players who already owned the game would eliminate most of the complaints. It doesn’t help that the FAQ was indicating the base game was required to play the expac only to launch the expac pre-purchase with the base game included.

        I agree with others on here as well, they really, really, REALLY need to go into more detail on both their HoT release content (what’s in there from day one: zones? dungeons? raids? other stuff?) and their road map for the life of HoT (what’s going to come out later). I’m fine with only a few zones if they show a road map to unlock a few more during the life of the expansion, etc.

  9. While I understand your point about content to some degree, in my view it is not taking into account that the past three years has seen enough new content and areas that we essentially had for free what other games would have called an expansion.

    Maybe other people don’t see it that way, but I am not much for buying the store cosmetics, so I am looking at this price and factoring in those years of work. If, by the time the next expansion rolls around my opinion on the value gained has changed, I’ll factor that into my decision then.

  10. Probably the fairest solution for all players would be to give 1000 gems to players who already own the base game for all versions, even more fair than a character slot because there is a high likelihood that a minority of players will grumble that a character slot is worthless to them. That is a rather simple solution, the disappointing part is that they obviously didn’t see this coming when they really should have. And it has greatly diminished the impact of news about guild halls.

  11. As with others, I don’t mind that new players are getting a bonus. I do mind that the expansion isn’t otherwise worth the $50 price tag, especially without an additional character slot that should have been standard. It’s a great value for new players, and that’s fine, but a poor value for everyone else, including those players I would have thought they wanted back. I don’t know how many are willing to take another chance on the game when they are asking almost as much for substantially less.

  12. The issue is that new players get 5 EMPTY character slots and can therefore play Revanent immediately for their $50.
    A veteran player may have more than 5 slots, but they are likely all FULL. Which means a veteran player needs to spend $60 to play Rev (base plus a new slot) or buy a more expensive package.
    So the anger and ill-will is basically due to the perception that new players can play the Rev for less money, which means they are getting more value. And that’s not fair.
    It’d be like giving the older daughter 5 chocolate chips on her ice cream and then asking the younger one if she’d like 5 chocolate chips or 4 chocolate chips and one jelly bean. The younger one gets a choice that the older one doesn’t get.

    1. You are ignoring the value attached to the characters in those 5 slots. You could just as easily delete a character and fill it with a Revenant as the new player getting the choice to save a character slot for the Revenant.

      You have the ability and option to create a Revenant the same as a player that gets HoT+Core. They are not getting more value. You are holding on to something you value more. Don’t make the mistake of ignoring that.

      1. Actually, that’s the problem… I’m NOT ignoring the value of my existing characters! I like them too much to murder one of them! That’s why (like it or not), the perception is that ArenaNet is forcing us to buy another character slot.
        I know they are not actually forcing us and deleting a character is always an option. So is not playing a Revenant.
        But it feels like they’re saying “yeah, you care enough about our game, then you’ll care enough about your characters, so it’s a safe bet (on our part) that you’ll fork over $10 more for a slot or $25 more for the next tier up to get a slot”. It’s a perception thing. I could delete a character, but it feels like ANet is gambling I won’t want to and is willing to use that as a cash grab.
        I have no problem with the “we want to make it easy for new players” thing and including the core “for free”. I’m all for bringing in new players. But the implication that they can play ALL of the content (meaning Rev) immediately while vets have to choose between murdering a beloved alt or spending more money to play what they’ve already purchased… it just feels wrong.

        1. But then you are asking for more value than new players. You have placed a value on existing characters, received that value through play, Which New Accounts Won’t Have. And yes ArenaNet has placed a value on character slots. So it becomes a competing value, but it is not an unfair one because you are in control of that value placing.

          And yes, I know ArenaNet knows that players are more likely to buy a new character slot than delete an alt. However, allowing the purchase of character slots through gold really helps as well.

          1. I don’t think preexisting character slots are relevant to the discussion, personally. Those character slots were already bought and paid for as part of the core game. They don’t add value to the expansion.

  13. Anet is pitching this as the expansion is 50 bucks and the base game is a freebie. I personally do not have a problem with a price point of 49.99 but so far nothing shown for HoT seems to indicate that it is even worth that amount of money. All that I have gleaned so far about the expansion comes off more like DLC content so at this point I would not fork out more than 30 bucks. They have still not clearly stated how big the new zones are, how many and how they compare in terms of depth of content versus the original zones. Even if the newer zones are smaller in number, since they are charging 49.99 I expect a depth of content akin to the base game. In comparison, FFXIV was pretty transparent about the zones and how they compare to the old ones so people got a handle early on about the content.

    The other way I would swallow this is if they plan meatier and better quality LS content (so far it has been underwhelming for me) which means you are paying 50 bucks for the initial HoT content plus LS content going forward (if there will be LS future content). This is also reasonable. I doubt most players will look at it this way as they are already getting mini updates for free with the base game.

    Also I have seen on other blogs that you may have to pay for LS content in the future if you are not buying HoT. Is that correct?

    1. I am not aware of that. My guess is that future LS content will likely require HoT. My feeling is that HoT is as much season pass as it is straight up expansion drop. I don’t know though, and I agree that seeing the value in HoT without knowing # of zones, # of storylines, etc. isn’t great.

      No problem at all for those that wait until they can more clearly see what the value might or might not be.

  14. I already bought the ex-pac and had no problem doing so. I have over 2000 hrs in the game and played since the first pre-purchase beta access events.

    That being said, I do think a small carrot would have been in order. You could just as easily say that if you buy Guild Wars 2 at $49.99 they throw in HoT for free….but vets need to pay extra for it.

    It’s all a matter of perception.

  15. New players get the expansion free. (It’s the only version available for purchase from guildwars2.com)

    That’s the problem. Plus, you know, the FAQ stating up to this announcement that the base game would be required to play: “Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion? A: Yes. Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is an expansion to Guild Wars 2 and not a stand-alone campaign, and therefore it requires the base game to play.”

  16. Bringing up the LS reminds me, would a new player have access to Season 2 of the LS, or would they need to buy it in the store to play that content? If they need to buy it, that is even more value that we had the chance to get for free as previous players.

  17. Actually the more I read on this, the more I agree with upset players. Honestly, Arenanet bungled this badly and existing players have a right to be annoyed. The $50 package is a nice idea for new players but for old players it lacks transparency.

    The base game still has a commercial value. Anet is not a charity so that 50 bucks price includes a value for the base game. No matter how you slice it, existing players are overpaying for HoT with that package. Just the way it is presented on their website tells you that the base game is not a giveaway, but part and parcel of the price you are paying. In other words, they are double dipping on existing players and that 50 bucks represents the combined value of HoT and GW2 base.

    Anet can easily fix this. They can put in a pricing option for Heart of Thorns only.

    They should have done what Square did: Expansion at X Price, Expansion and Base Game at X + Y price. More transparent and less controversial. Problem solved.

    Also, is there a release date. If not, since when is it common practice to ask people for money for a product with no release date window and a feature list that is not comprehensive? Is this Landmark or did Daybreak buy Arenanet?

    1. Should I get a better deal because I ordered the game before launch for full price 3 years ago than someone who got it on sale last year? If the answer is no, then how do you quantify the value of already having the game?

      1. You are missing the point. This has nothing to do with when you bought the game and who bought what on sale. That is irrelevant.

        From a purely economic standpoint, the base game’s value has already been set by Anet. It is in the $50 price point. Anet already knows internally what the base game and HoT valuations are. They then combined them to come up with the $50 price point. It is a great package but for new players.

        Here is the way it should have been done. FFXIV’s Heavensward expansion is 39.99. The base FFXIV and expansion is 59.99. You can therefore see that Square is charging an additional 20 bucks for the base game. This all works. New players can buy the bundle. Old players get the expansion only. And before you get mired in who bought what when, the FFXIV base game sold at launch for between 30 and 40 bucks. A year ago. Now people can get it for 20 bucks as part of a bundle. New players love it as they get a discount on the base game, old players love it as they can just buy the expansion.

        In comparison, Anet is only offering Option B to all players. For option b to make any sense and be fair for existing players (those who are not interested in getting another copy of the base game), you have to assume that the base game’s value is zero. That is nonsense. As I said before, Anet is not a charity and the base game has a commercial value. If it did not, we would be in free download territory for GW2’s base game. Therefore, they are double dipping on existing players which is dishonest.

        Anet needs to be transparent and provide an option that is expansion only. Otherwise, what they are doing is screwing their existing players. This is on top of the fact that there is no release date or timeframe and no comprehensive feature list. But please give me your money.

        1. Are you familiar with the EQ2 practice I mentioned above? For years when you purchased the newest expansion it included all that came before. Was that double-, triple-, quadruple-dipping on players who’d purchased the previous expansions?

          I see your point about the price of the base game, but we differ in that I think it is ok for that price to be $0 once Heart of Thorns is out. Effectively, the only official version of the game at that point will BE Heart of Thorns. So arguing over price of the base game vs. price of the expansion won’t be relevant in my mind.

          One thing I do agree with so far is the idea that the standard edition of Heart of Thorns could come with one character slot. That would be a nod to the players who have been around a while and are laying out a not-insignificant sum for the expansion. at that point, though, I’d have to reexamine what I think of the $25 price jump for the next tier of items.

          1. I agree with your last paragraph as an alternative. The reason I think players are asking for character slots is that they view that as an appropriate item to include for them to pay 50 bucks because to them HoT on its own is not a $50 value.

            Anet still have not clearly enunciated the amount of content available so people rightly had lower price expectations based on what they have so far been shown: A handful of specializations, no new races, one new class, some talk about verticality but no clear sense of size and content in zones, no real biome variety and an emphasis on magumma, guild halls and a new pvp and wvw zone. Not exactly $50 expansion material.

            I am not familiar with EQ. Never played it. EQ consumers may have been willing to pay full price anyway with content they already have because the new content was meaty enough to justify the cost. From what I have heard, EQ expansions were whole games in and of themselves. HoT doesnt seem to have the same level of content from what we have seen. If my assumption is correct on the sheer size of EQ expansion content, then your comparison doesn’t work but I am an EQ noob so I dont know lol.

            I will leave this as my final view as I do not wish to bombard Ravious’ post lol. Anet bungled this. They should have announced a full feature list and a release date with pricing. As it stands now, the uproar is driven by consumer’s perception of value. What Anet have advertised is not worth $50 bucks even if you go with the generous assumption of the base game being zero. They now have to either offer a cheaper expansion only package or something additional for the current package like character slots.

  18. You asked in your article what would we do if the older daughter were fussing about the ice cream. Well, we spank kids for fussing at the dinner table. They sure as heck don’t get their way, and they don’t get to ruin everyone else’s good time. Now, you can’t and shouldn’t do that with this presale – because the “kids” are paying customers, and not under your authority – but I sure bet there are some folks at Anet who’d like to!

    I just don’t understand people griping about “value” with this whole thing. I have five children, and even just taking them to a fast-food joint like Wendy’s ONE TIME costs almost the same as the base price of the expansion! And tomorrow, all that’s left of that money will be wiped off everyone’s backsides and flushed.

    I have bought video games for $60 that I didn’t even like, and that only took a couple of hours to finish. If the only things that HoT has in it are Verdant Brink and a guild hall, I’ll spend so much time playing it, and will have such fun doing so that it will make the $175 I spent on it (I have to buy it multiple times because of those same kids) seem ridiculously cheap.

    But then again, I’m an adult with an adult’s job, and tiny purchases like video games no longer break the bank. I just think that this whining is too much, and probably is being done more by spoiled kids than rational adults.

    1. That’s part of why some of us cook at home and don’t take our kids to fast food places. I used to grudgingly shell out the money for WoW expansions and the monthly fee when I didn’t have kids, but that money should have gone into a savings account instead. Now that I have kids and have also dealt with surprise medical issues, I’ve gotten a lot more frugal and responsible with my money.

      You haven’t proven that the game is worth what they are asking, just that you’re a bigger consumer than people who are more frugal and discerning. Also, what doesn’t break the bank today might break it tomorrow. You never know when a company will restructure or someone will get hospitalized. That’s a bit off topic, but I find it troubling to hear someone so dismissive of throwing away money on things they don’t even like as if money grows on trees.

      1. I feel like my statement about buying games for $60 that I didn’t even like has improperly colored the tone of my post in your mind. I didn’t know BEFORE I bought those games that I wouldn’t like them. Things like that are always a big disappointment (looking at you, Battlefield: Hardline). In other words, I was not intending to “throw money away”.

        And yes, we also eat 95% of meals at home.

        1. Well, that and the part that you called anyone debating the value of the game a spoiled brat. I personally have a strict budget for entertainment. Technically a date night costs more than the game and taking the family to the movies only marginally less, and for fewer hours of immediate enjoyment, but it’s hard to draw comparisons. I spent more time playing games growing up but my movie/lunch “dates” with my mom created more lasting memories. Give a choice between the two, the latter was money better spent.

          Another dilemma that I imagine a lot of people face and then is how much time they spend on the game (a lot of which may or may not be enjoyable.) I went from questioning whether or not the expansion was worth the money to whether or not I should be investing more time in the game anyway. I might not have been asking myself those questions had they presented a more appealing package.

          Obviously business people can’t account for every possible scenario but the goal is to find the most appealing price/product combo. I think they shot too high for what’s being offered and, as others suspect, really wanted to push the deluxe and ultimate packages, forgetting the number of couples and even families that play the game.

  19. I don’t think they’re up-selling Deluxe at all. All the emphasis is on Ultimate. It defaults to Ultimate; daubed in shiny gold with a special emphasis on the gems. When you factor in the gems Ultimate becomes cheaper than Deluxe and is only fractionally more expensive than Standard.

    It’s all about Ultimate.

      1. Dagnabbit… I already warned my wife, “Babe, I’m about to spend $100 on a video game.”

        Her response, “We’re getting a puppy.”

  20. I agree with most of your points here, but I went ahead and bought the Ultimate Edition, mostly because I’ve been saving up money for the past 3 months, and also because it’s the best value. I understand if the Standard Edition folk feel ripped off, and I hope they compensate the Standard or Deluxe buyers somehow.

  21. I love discussion about game “value”.

    In economy, the value of something is the price someone is ready to pay to have it. The conclusion is : if the price of something is inferior to its value for someone, he will buy it, if not, he will not. The company will only sell a product if the price is superior to the cost – including all costs. From here start the whole economy on how to find the best price (or multiple prices) for a good. .

    The interesting part is how to define the value. We nearly never take into account the monetary gain of buying something but always evaluate it from comparison with other object. And for videogame, this become more and more complex ( kickstarter VS Steam discount VS precommand VS DLC VS Expansion, etc…). So people start to react less on a rational (even wrong) approach, and become more emotional.

    It shall be really interesting to be the guy defining the price of the HoT expansion.

    Finally, I think ArenaNet has find the best spot from a commercial point-of-view : this is just where everyone that would have been ready to pay the extension will pay for it, extracting all consumer surplus. They just have to bury deep and wait for the end of the storm. They should make a small gesture in two-three months when the emotion has falled back to give an excuse for all people raging now to buy it without betraying themselves.

    Source : all those theory from http://youarenotsosmart.com/ that I discovered from KTR some years ago.

  22. To me this is just another in a long line of reminders of just how childish and inexperienced the developers are, NOT the players. Once again we see yet another blunder on their part. Not a single one over there has ever had experience with an MMO and it shows. It’s one thing to make one mistake in the beginning when the game first launched it’s another entirely to continue to make mistakes like these over and over consistantly for years now and wonder why they receive backlash,

    The last major one was with the gem store conversion so this is not a new thing please stop misinforming the public and saying “oh well they did a tiny blunder and shouldn’t be hounded because of it” that would have been the case years ago in 2012 however you people have to remember that this isn’t the first time they’ve done something like this. So when I see these articles I have to laugh.

    First of all there are several SEVERAL instances of them saying or doing one thing and not doing it. Second, there are several instances of them making poor decisions like the one we’re seeing with this purchase. and finally we’re also seeing almost no info on the changes coming we have to beg BEG to get that information meanwhile they continue to push back the time frames on when they will release.

    Also we keep hearing from the press despite all of this how wonderful these developers are and how they simply are human beings and should be coddled like tiny baby Quaggans anytime something serious happens, or they we should keep our kid gloves on when dealing with them when they continue to do these things they should know by now are not acceptable things by the gaming community.

    Please let us know when A: you start recalling properly the quarterly blunders these people keep making and B: when you start treating these blunders seriously instead of coddling these people.

  23. Effectively calling players who are unhappy with the prepurchase news spoiled children is rather unfair. I don’t care what new players get for their money – it has no effect on my perceived value of the expansion. My issue is that the expansion essentially costs $60 if you want to play the new class without deleting a level 80 character, and they’ve yet to show us that they have $60 worth of new content coming in this expansion.

  24. this is a big load of horse patootie.

    this has nothing to do with ‘being entitled’, it is bait and switch by arenanet. if a store offers two things together in a package deal for one price, every person who buys it should be getting the exact same thing right? that is the bait, anet telling everyone they get the base game and xpac for one price.

    it shouldnt matter if someone already has the base game, if you bundle them together for one price you should be selling both together TO EVERYONE, giving those already with the base game another copy. they did pay for it, am i correct?

    the switch came in when those already with the base game pre-purchased one of the xpacs to find they did not in fact get the base game that was advertised as coming with the xpac.

    when you bait someone, telling them they will receive something for one price, and in the exchange they do not receive what you advertised and are not in fact getting what they pay for.

    that is the very definition of bait and switch.

    this whole thing could have been avoided if arenanet wasnt trying to be so greedy by forcing people to pay the $50 for the basic game & xpac. all they had to do was split that package so that the xpac was separate. thats all this is, pure greed on anets part, they turned something that should have been an easy transition period into a joke, and now everyone is taking a second look at how the game as a whole looks, and they are seeing there really isnt as much content here as anet tries to hype. and with no info on what exactly is in the rest of the xpac, its looking even more shady on anets part.

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