Failure to Explain

While it’s against our policy to share exact formulas (in order to keep guilds from gaming the system), we do want to be sure and clarify these mechanics to the best of our ability for those guilds who are concerned about how guild leveling actually works.

The best of their ability is very poor. “It is a sound system involving a lot of math” does not tell us anything. “The system takes into account the characters’ level, and is balanced in a way to allow guilds of all sizes to level up at comparable (but not necessarily equal) rates.” This statement also translates to “we’re not going to tell you anything useful.” The best I can infer from the post is that completely inactive characters do not count against you, but mules and slightly active alts do. So Casualties of WAR was completely right about severely limiting alts, until we get a conflicting statement down the road.

The guild leveling system was obviously not part of any open testing. No one is allowed to know how it works, so we cannot tell if it is working properly. That is one way to keep the bug count down.

Conveniently, it does not matter in the long run. Every guild that sticks with the game will hit max level (or near enough) in several months. And what are the odds that anyone will quit because it took too long to get a guild emblem on their cloaks? Everyone will stick the guild leveling system in the “ignore” box soon and not think about it until someone looks at the code in two years.

: Zubon

6 thoughts on “Failure to Explain”

  1. Punishing moderately active alts in small guilds. Greeaaaaat.

    Pretty much how I concluded it too, our small guild is still at Rank 5.

    I love WAR so far, but almost every aspect of it favours zergs in one form or another, size of guild seems to be no exception.

  2. I have two guilds, one destruction, one order. The order side guild is massive with something over 200 characters and maybe 80-100 players, 6 or so are level 30+. It’s rank 13. The destro side guild is small, with maybe 50 characters over 20 players, 4 characters are level 30+. It’s also rank 13.

    While I do agree that preventing large guilds from leveling super fast is needed, I think punishing the members of large guilds by making their contribution count for half (or less) as much as smaller guilds is silly. Large guilds SHOULD be higher level than small guilds, just not runaway rank 30 vs 10. I think if my order guild were around 17-18 while the destro guild was 13 that would be perfectly reasonable.

    Their fuzzy math is a little too fuzzy i think, since it overly punishes large casual guilds and overly rewards small hardcore guilds.

  3. Instead of having POOR math and having to hide it, why not make it so the formula is strong enough that it can’t be min/max – ed, and share it. Sounds simple to me, I hate weak excuses.

    At bare minimum find a min/max that is intended by developers. Guess work sucks.

  4. I have a small guild, just a few friends more than an true guild. 8 players with 14 characters (5 mine, 2 with 2, rest 1 each atm). When none of the others were on today, I turned in a ton of quests and had several tome unlocks (location/person) due to travel some of the quests involved. No combat. I waited a while to make sure the guild xp had updated, and got the following numbers. I gained 63148 xp, and the guild gained 48251xp, which yields 76.4% of my xp also got added as guild xp.

    I heard, not really confirmed, a “medium” sized guild measured its individual xp contribs at about 75%, which is amazingly close to what I got.

    But, I agree, “security thru obscurity” is a failed idea, which is what mythic is practicing. By leaving their complex math hidden, it just ensures that a hardcore players might take the time that a casual guild wouldn’t to try and figure how size and activity effect the xp rates. Maybe not get it exact, but figure out something close enough to figure an optimum.

  5. If I were to guess at the optimal behavior described in that grab bag, it would be this: join the guild every time you log on a character, quit the guild every time you log off. Make sure everyone in the guild can invite. That way, you are always at the minimum size and therefore maximum contribution. You have only currently active characters in the guild, in the sense of active right now.

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